How Long Does Other DAWs Take To Save 20,000 Midi Items?

[jancivil]

Well, I am not sure what the OP’s at but if you enter such a thread with no other purpose than ...

physician, heal thyself.

[Hink]

Well, I am not sure what the OP’s at but if you enter such a thread with no other purpose than ...

physician, heal thyself.

jan, stay out of this thread and I'm serious

[enroe]

Bnd hey, my other solutions sometime works. For example, despite what most people seem to say about my current music-making method... it's working for me. You have to be there, and I am.

Though your method may be a little extraordinary it is good
to hear that it is working for you!

[IncarnateX]

Well, I am not sure what the OP’s at but if you enter such a thread with no other purpose than ...

physician, heal thyself.

jan, stay out of this thread and I'm serious

Eh Hink...plz beware the quote. I have this missus on mute and intent to until 2022. She obviously has a crush on me that drives her crazy. Quite understanable though, as you can see I am very beautiful.

[woggle]

I use a similar method but write the software myself to generate the midi variations which I then edit, or design a process to generate the variation. I think of it as a Selectionist model within the more general Generative systems area. So it is Darwinian, a process generates a set of variations on existing material which are then subject to selection. I find it very productive, but I have much more control over the process compared to the OP. I never generate more than a few variations to select from. Here is an example where I took an audio file of Mompou, added increasing amounts of reverb so that it started coherent but finished in mush, then extracted a midi representation of that in Melodyne, which I then used. So there is a clear process to generate a variation (in this case I only ran that process a couple of times before finding one worth selecting)
https://soundcloud.com/greghooper/varia ... paisajes-2


alternatively this one started as a midi file which I ran through my software to generate some variations, selected one then edited (and arranged the instrumentation)

https://soundcloud.com/greghooper/varia ... mnopedie-2

There is a permutation script in Reaper (not true permutation, more randomising) that the OP may find worthwhile.

[Delta Sign]

Yes, if you want to "extract" the playing style of a particular drummer from a bunch of MIDI files, simply averaging the velocities won't do much. Some very, very simple AI, like a bunch of simple Markov chains, would already do a much better job. You also have to realize the MIDI files you have are already interpretations of the original songs. Like, the velocities of the kicks are probably just lower in the files for mixing reasons, since there isn't really any other way in MIDI to mix the individual drum sounds.

Stuff like this can certainly be a lot of fun and very inspiring. However, I think it's a good idea to have a very good understanding of the underlying subject, in this case drumming, first.

While I'm certainly a fan of generative stuff, I'm usually trying to avoid any kind of randomness. I think a lot of people think generative == random, which is total nonsense.

[Unaspected]

Oh that is a lot of questions, I see it must have been very very very complicated for you to judge whether you actually had an answer to his simple question. To me it was quite simple, namely that I wouldn`t friggin know because I have never tested a bunch of DAWs abilities to save a large amount of midi items and even if the DAWs differed, I do not have any tech knowledge to explain it. Even if we take the simple translation of the title: Why does it take so long in Reaper?, it would be a pass for me because I have never used Reaper. Why would I care about the motives or musical approach for asking such a question? Obviously it takes someone who has knowledge about how a greater amount of midi items are handled in Reaper and other DAWs respectively to answer the question and just how many of those onboard this thread have any clue about that?

Well, now he is gone, so I hope your pain is over. May the thread RIP.

You haven't read the thread, have you. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make as you also didn't bother to offer any specific help. Unless you thought you were actually inciting people to act in some preconceived manner. I'm certainly not on KVR to troll - but I am here to enjoy myself, learn, make jokes and help people. I just call things as I see them. And if you did come here to try and stir something up, the troll would be...

Anyway. You don't need to use a DAW to see this as a poorly designed process. Would it be logical to have to process all your files any time you want to make a change? It has also been suggested that we multiply the total every time drum velocities are edited after the rudimentary analysis of a new drummer. So, with a Ringo folder added, we now have 40K of MIDI files. You might not care about the musical approach but if you read the thread you would see that was an additional topic that arose which still requires addressing by Harry. I wanted to deal with the main issue - hence the questions. Should these questions have been asked earlier in the thread? No. They should have been asked by Harry before the process was started.

Even though you have no experience with this specific issue, is your brain not screaming that the process should be tested in a musical sense? It reads like a distraction from getting stuck into music making.

Question 1: Why have we generated 20K drum patterns to start with?

Answer: I want as much access to what is available combination-wise. I want randomization. I don't want pre-made "genrical" drum patterns.

I get that but these are all randomly generated. Therefore, the number is arbitrary. There is no difference in generating 1M patterns and picking 20 of them randomly compared to simply generating 20 random patterns.

Question 2: Why are we batch exporting them all over and over again? Why not work with multiple project files and only export what is needed?

Answer: I am not "batch exporting them all over and over again". The 20,000 files are reusable. I could use it on 20 new songs if I wanted to without ever editing the 20,000 files again. But if I needed to make edits, like changing the midi velocity to sort of emulate Ringo Starr's drum velocities, I'd rather have that done in under 8 minutes.
The purpose of this thread's creation is that I had this thought "Maybe I don't have REAPER set up properly, maybe in other DAWS it takes under 8 minutes to batch export 20,000 midi items".

Yet you can select ahead of the process, edit and then save just those files chosen - instead of addressing the whole batch every time.

Question 3: Why are we randomly selecting drum patterns when the generation process was random to start with? Isn't this simply a redundant step?

Answer: Not redundant to me. If what you are proposing is to do is to just select them from #1 to #20,000 every time I make a new song then I will end up always auditioning drum pattern #1 every time. Selecting them randomly lessens the chance that I have to audition drum pattern #1 for the second time. I thought about deleting or hiding the drum patterns that were used (I haven't actually used these drum patterns in any song yet but pretend I have) before in previous songs but the problem is that everything depends on the bass. The bass on song number 2 could sound good with drum pattern #1 even if it didn't sound good with the bass on song number 1. \so that's why I changed my mind about hiding or deleting previously used midi drum patterns.

No. Logically, you would step through the sequentially. If song one auditioned patterns 1to 20; then song two would use 21 to 45; song three 46 to 60 - however many you want to use per song.

Question 4: Why don't we have a separate project and folder for edits?

Answer: I have already thought about that. For example, After I make my "Ringo Starr midi velocity" edit I will keep that in a separate folder and probably name it "Ringo Starr - Birthday Midi Velocity". I will probably rename my current folder "Original Velocity 100 - No Tom Toms - No Crash Cymbals - Opened Hi-hats Not Sustaining" or something like that. So that totals 40,000+ midi items.

Doubling the number seems pretty crazy just for applying sustained velocity values to different drums. Why not do this selectively instead of using such a huge number of files. When people work with large number of files they tend to keep them on disk, rather than loading them all into a DAW. As a number of people have already suggested, batch operations of this scale are best carried out using other applications.

Question 5: Most importantly: Why aren't we simply generating random drum patterns as and when we need them? This would negate need for the first three questions and obliterate the insanely long export time.

Answer: Drum generators creates all sorts of problems. Problems I mentioned before, it generates "unwanteds" like tom toms, crash cymbals, opened hi-hats that sustain too long, uniform velocity (most times it's 100 and sometimes 127). It's a hassle doing the edits during audition time. So I fix all those problems when I notice them and after that I just drag and drop them into REAPER. No interruptions, no editing. I can even create a macro that does all the dragging and dropping automatically and I can audition them WHILE playing speed scrabble or whatever else like... Googling stuff, eating, just lying down on the bed, watching movies from Internet Archive, etcetera.

Will you find a use for every one of your 20K drum patterns or are you junking the files that aren't going to be of use?

Really, the idea that you have to use 20K drum patterns is the issue here. Why not just choose 1K? That's still a crazily huge number but if export is linear, your export should be less than 20 minutes. Which is still crazy but maybe it's less crazy.

Have you analysed how many drum patterns Ringo uses per song on average? That should give you some idea as to why people reading this thread reacted as they did. It might be more understandable if these were professionally programmed MIDI files or audio files with drum loops and fills - but we're talking about completely randomly generated files here.

I'm sure everyone reading this thread would like for you to find a way to work more efficiently but this is your choice as to whether to do so or not.

I'm not trolling. I think this should be looked at; not just by Monsieur Babble, in my assessment this kind of approach shouldn't be encouraged. Unless wasting time is to be encouraged.

I concur. You highlighted a number of subjects which really do require addressing if Harry wants to improve both his method and grasp of drum programming.

[woggle]

I get that but these are all randomly generated. Therefore, the number is arbitrary. There is no difference in generating 1M patterns and picking 20 of them randomly compared to simply generating 20 random patterns.

excellent point - and I remind the OP that Reaper has a randomising script available to help you do that
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=191788

[IncarnateX]

I concur. You highlighted a number of subjects which really do require addressing if Harry wants to improve both his method and grasp of drum programming.

IF he wants to improve...Well, he did not and did not call you up to be the authority to tell him either. Who are you to tell people how to make music without their request? How conceited of you if you for a moment think anyone would follow such an "expert" advice without asking for it.

[JoseC.]

It reads like a distraction from getting stuck into music making.

.

This. To me, this sounds like procastination mixed with some condition, like OCD. Besides that, the OP even said in this thread something like he has not much fun making music.

I wonder what is the right way to "help" here.

[JoseC.]

I concur. You highlighted a number of subjects which really do require addressing if Harry wants to improve both his method and grasp of drum programming.

IF he wants to improve...Well, he did not and did not call you up to be the authority to tell him either. Who are you to tell people how to make music without their request? How conceited of you if you for a moment think anyone would follow such an "expert" advice without asking for it.

To be honest, he did not call you in his defense, either.

[IncarnateX]

Well, now I am here to his defense and since he is not here to object to it, you have to deal with Mr. I-am-gonna-tell-ya. A self-proclaimed expert from the internet that tells people what to do and how to think. How groundbreaking original. That we have never seen before.

[IncarnateX]

To me, this sounds like procastination mixed with some condition, like OCD

OCD? You know as a psychologist I can tell you that you have just abused a very serious disorder, which causes a lot of agony for those suffering from it and their relatives. Reported.

[chk071]

This thread seriously calls for a "double facepalm when one is not enough" meme now.

[IncarnateX]

This thread calls for a lock and I have personally requested one due to abuse of psychiatric diagnoses. Whether a lock is coming and will be sufficient or there will be a banfest too will probably depend on how far you guys are ready to take this.