Zebra 2 Brain Overload

[zvenx]

........
I STARTED the ^%$#ing thread ... lol ...
..........
ALL I said was that linux would be good for audio if manufacturers ever supported it in response to someone who was talking some kind of stupid &^%$ about Linux gui code nothing good enough for it ...

It was your thread, didn't realise.
Apologies.
Wouldn't change my view but I could have been more silent in your thread.

rsp

[low_low]

As a buyer, even if I didn't use Linux, just knowing that there WAS a linux port of the plugins would be enough to convince me to buy them. Not for altruistic reasons, but because it's an indicator of excellence. You'd think a Steinberg or an Avid would do it for that reason alone, for the virtue signalling points to show that they are professional products and not consumer toys.

is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen on kvr recently and there have been many, in the years I have been here.

I have no idea what supercomputers and web servers have to do with audio production, daws and plugins.... the simple fact is that linux is an 'obscure' OS for musicians..and what advantages does it offer musicians over unix core OS X.
How could it possibly be an indicator of excellence?
rsp

Dude, all I can say is I stand by that ... I have lived around Linux for decades, and I always assume software is more serious when it supports Linux. I understand that's not something most Windows DAW users would appreciate, but it's really just a cultural difference. Like I said in a previous post, I get that a lot of DAW users see Linux as some kind of inexpensive / free alternative for people who can't afford a "real DAW", but that has nothing to do with how people who deal with Linux all the time see it.

I think that's going on here has nothing to do with me ... I mean had I said the same thing in other circles they'd be like .. yeah, of course ... that's why I didn't think anything of it when I wrote it. What I think is going on is that you guys on this forum must have had a series of religious wars about Linux vs. Mac vs. Windows before I got here and I just got caught up in it.

[chk071]

I'm not saying anything unusual, it's everyday knowledge. Linux is widely used.

No it isn't. At least not in the area of computing we are talking about here.

[zvenx]

My first OS was unix when I was doing my PhD in Geophysics some moons ago....I spent years with unix before even experiencing another OS and did all my thesis work using Unix.
However what that means is for that industry it was great, but has zero to do with how great it would be in other industry and fields.

As you know Linux is rewritten Unix without the licensing, but with more 'innate' GUI abilities I believe, more or less.
OSX is Unix core.

It is great for servers: unix-like core, no AT&T (or whoever owns the license now) licensing, highly adaptable.

Apart from geeky ppl who like to tamper and tinkle etc what would advantage would Linux offer the musician?

rsp

[chk071]

Apart from geeky ppl who like to tamper and tinkle etc what would advantage would Linux offer the musician?

Add to that the often non-existing driver support from companies, the slow way the audio software industry is moving anyway (and lots of new tech they'd have to learn to support Linux), the lack of ASIO, and the need for special real-time kernels for low latency. Or having to make non-native plugins work with Wine, or other wrappers. Anyway, those who WANT to tamper with that should do it. Most musicians and music producers won't want that, i can assure you of that.

[zvenx]

.........

I think that's going on here has nothing to do with me ... I mean had I said the same thing in other circles they'd be like .. yeah, of course ... that's why I didn't think anything of it when I wrote it. What I think is going on is that you guys on this forum must have had a series of religious wars about Linux vs. Mac vs. Windows before I got here and I just got caught up in it.

Not at all for me.
You dont' use it, but because it is used in other industries:servers, webservers, film editing,etc. somehow it makes it professional and audio developers should spend resources on doing it regardless if the user base is maybe 2%, just so they can appear professional? For what prestige? Just so they can say they have done it?
That is just a ridiculous statement.
rsp

[pdxindy]

.........

I think that's going on here has nothing to do with me ... I mean had I said the same thing in other circles they'd be like .. yeah, of course ... that's why I didn't think anything of it when I wrote it. What I think is going on is that you guys on this forum must have had a series of religious wars about Linux vs. Mac vs. Windows before I got here and I just got caught up in it.

Not at all for me.
You dont' use it, but because it is used in other industries:servers, webservers, film editing,etc. somehow it makes it professional and audio developers should spend resources on doing it regardless if the user base is maybe 2%, just so they can appear professional? For what prestige? Just so they can say they have done it?
That is just a ridiculous statement.
rsp

man, you are like a rabid dog on the attack...

[low_low]

My first OS was unix when I was doing my PhD in Geophysics some moons ago....I spent years with unix before even experiencing another OS and did all my thesis work using Unix.
However what that means is for that industry it was great, but has zero to do with how great it would be in other industry and fields.

As you know Linux is rewritten Unix without the licensing, but with more 'innate' GUI abilities I believe, more or less.
OSX is Unix core.

It is great for servers, unix core, no AT&T (or whoever owns the license now) licensing, highly adaptable.

Apart from geeky ppl who like to tamper and tinkle etc what would advantage would Linux offer the musician?

rsp

Well now I'm afraid to answer your question LOL.

But .. if you're serious, and PLEASE KEEP IN MIND I'M NOT PROMOTING LINUX HERE, I'm just answering the damn question ... it would have a lot of advantages, but I'll toss out two and if anybody wants to have an actual conversation about it we can, or I'll just drop it because I don't feel like arguing about it.

1) Processor affinity. DAWs have problems with CPU overload because Windows uses all the CPU's for housekeeping and keeping up with processes, but in Linux you can dedicate processor cores to specific processes, which has the potential to insure that the DAW can get everything into the lower latency windows without stuttering. There are also Nice levels that can be set, etc, to promote certain processes to being "more important" to the kernel that could have the same kind of effects.

2) Performance. Here's a video of windows vs. linux using the exact same hardware, same rendering software, rendering out video using Nuke for video compositing. The results speak for themselves.



That said ... I don't think it'll ever happen because Windows and Mac users aren't going to switch to Linux as a desktop, so it's pretty much academic ... but I never made the argument that they would, I just said that Linux would be well suited to the task if manufacturers every decided to support it. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with Linux as a DAW and it would have a lot of advantages, but it isn't like I think tomorrow it's going to be a "thing" in the audio world.

[zvenx]

Well now I'm afraid to answer your question LOL.

........

lol
no I am interested in your answer.
rsp

[low_low]

Not at all for me.
You dont' use it, but because it is used in other industries:servers, webservers, film editing,etc. somehow it makes it professional and audio developers should spend resources on doing it regardless if the user base is maybe 2%, just so they can appear professional? For what prestige? Just so they can say they have done it?
That is just a ridiculous statement.
rsp

I don't use what ? You lost me with that. I DO use Linux. I don't use a Linux DAW because there isn't support for it, at least not enough support for me to want to do audio stuff on it. ???

On the issue of looking professional .. I just said I get that you don't see it that way. To me it looks more professional, and to a lot of people it does ... but I get that isn't the case in this community, like I said, difference in culture.

In other circles not supporting linux just marks your product as a consumer grade product, that's all I was saying.

[zvenx]

[........
I don't use what ? You lost me with that. I DO use Linux. I don't use a Linux DAW because there isn't support for it, at least not enough support for me to want to do audio stuff on it. ???
........

That's a misquote on my part.
you did say

As a buyer, even if I didn't use Linux, just knowing that there WAS a linux port of the plugins would be enough to convince me to buy them.........

I missed the even if I didn't in my quoting you....

anyway we will agree to disagree vehemently on this one.
rsp

[zvenx]

More to your point on speed.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/fast-fast ... computing/

and

https://www.zdnet.com/article/anonymous ... n-windows/

rsp

[chk071]

You know, i don't think it makes sense to further discuss this. The Linux people will continue to push software developers wherever they can anyway. So, my advice would be to come back to it next year. And then the year after that. And then the year after that. Maybe, at some point, downloads of audio plugins for Linux versions will have gotten to 2% then, and it will slowly make sense to consider full Linux development. Or not, if you are a one-man business, which has to do the coding, support, sales, website development, manual writing. Etc. pp.

If even a company like u-he has to "hire" (not sure if he even gets paid for it) someone externally for it, then i doubt that it would make sense for any company with less than 20 employees.

[wagtunes]

As a buyer, even if I didn't use Linux, just knowing that there WAS a linux port of the plugins would be enough to convince me to buy them. Not for altruistic reasons, but because it's an indicator of excellence. You'd think a Steinberg or an Avid would do it for that reason alone, for the virtue signalling points to show that they are professional products and not consumer toys.

is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen on kvr recently and there have been many, in the years I have been here.

I have no idea what supercomputers and web servers have to do with audio production, daws and plugins.... the simple fact is that linux is an 'obscure' OS for musicians..and what advantages does it offer musicians over unix core OS X.
How could it possibly be an indicator of excellence?
rsp

Dude, all I can say is I stand by that ... I have lived around Linux for decades, and I always assume software is more serious when it supports Linux. I understand that's not something most Windows DAW users would appreciate, but it's really just a cultural difference. Like I said in a previous post, I get that a lot of DAW users see Linux as some kind of inexpensive / free alternative for people who can't afford a "real DAW", but that has nothing to do with how people who deal with Linux all the time see it.

I think that's going on here has nothing to do with me ... I mean had I said the same thing in other circles they'd be like .. yeah, of course ... that's why I didn't think anything of it when I wrote it. What I think is going on is that you guys on this forum must have had a series of religious wars about Linux vs. Mac vs. Windows before I got here and I just got caught up in it.

It doesn't matter what you think of Linus and Charlie Brown, what it's used for or how good it is. The only thing that matters is the reality of what the world of computers offers and doesn't offer to musicians. Linux offers very little. It's not going to change regardless of how good it is.

The parallel is Betamax versus VCR. Betamax was better. But it didn't catch on. It died. End of story. Linux will not catch on in the music world. Yes, our world will always be split between Windows and OSX. I hate Apple and will never use it. But there is a market for Apple users. There will never be a market for Linux users, at least not on any wide scale.

Deal with it and get over it.

Just like I had to get over Betamax.

[low_low]

More to your point on speed.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/fast-fast ... computing/

and

https://www.zdnet.com/article/anonymous ... n-windows/

rsp

Thanks rsp.

Minor point, those articles are from 2012 when linux only ran 90% of the top 500 fastest supercomputers, now it runs 100%.