Zebra 2 Brain Overload

[EnochLight]

Well, actually, yeah - according to those numbers - the industry DOESN'T. You thinking that 188 companies out of 30 million makes a difference is either you being 1. disingenuous or 2. grossly misrepresenting the actual math.

For all intents and purposes, the industry does NOT use LO. Sorry.

I disagree. There are business using LO. They are on the extreme low side, but their use shows that LO is a viable option, when all other elements are in. Of course MS is implanted in every business. Few for that matter are using a Mac for business word processing. This is due to other factors than only the ones related per se to MS Office, like finding MS on every computer in common businesses. By common I mean that have no special links that would favour other solutions. Like, as some time ago, banks using OS/2 PM because they are tied to IBM.

188 is not much at all, but it shows that it's viable.

And there's no love involved.

You're welcome to disagree, but your reasons are misplaced. And try not to move the goal posts of the conversation - no one is talking about whether or not it's a viable alternative. We're talking about the fact that the industry doesn't use it, and you think that 188 out of 30 million means the industry does. That's just... insane.

[fmr]

As far as I can see our beloved colleague MEVLA uses this thread to reach 1,500 posts and with that the „KVRAF“ status... Why not!

Ah. Have no idea whatsoever about that. What's this KVRAF status ? Do I get a discount on Windows plugins with it ?

No, you get this famous LINUX for free

Which distro? And will it use Gnome, KDE or another GUI? And does it have a library repository?

[glokraw]

It doesn't matter what you think of Linus and Charlie Brown, what it's used for or how good it is. The only thing that matters is the reality of what the world of computers offers and doesn't offer to musicians. Linux offers very little.

It's not that bad. It's actually quite good to not have 100s of plugins while learning how to mix, how to create. So let's make a list from what I use that's solely native Linux:

DAWs: Bitwig, Harrison Mixbus32C (Mixbus has basic compression and tape saturation built-in)

Synths: All u-he synths, pianoteq, Discovery Pro/Bliss/Vertigo, Redux, Biotek, Waverazor, Zynaddsubfx.
what he _could_ be
Audio Processing: u-he's Presswerk, Satin Uhbik series and Protoverb, OvertoneDSP plugins, Tracktion plugins, all Harrison plugins.

That's frankly more than enough to learn and put into practice mixing and creative skills.

What a poor and limited selection!

Go tell that to Willie Nelson, if you can get by
the thick-neck guys counting his stacks of cash.
Note that selection is only what Mevla is using, not what he
_could_ be using, if so inclined. Each of us can maximise our own
situation, and be happy.
Cheers

[mevla]

Which distro? And will it use Gnome, KDE or another GUI? And does it have a library repository?

Well, there's North Korea if you don't mind the travel. Will address all those darn situations in which you have too many choices to handle.

[glokraw]

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now
Oh oh oh oh oh
And I want it (now)
I want it, I want it
Oh ha

Even self absorbed brats can rap, or whatever,
without any factual knowledge of history,
without understanding the price of freedom,
without comprehending how wealth is built,
maintained, and grown. Oh oh oh oh,
parasites wanting, nay, demanding, their freebie,
free doctors, free college, free food for the needie,
Your stack is tall my stack is small
you worked, I sherked, but I deserve it all
not later, right now, no why or how
just pay up and shut up, you silly cow
cause I want want want want want it
want it now

[glokraw]

Being amused when reading this holy war diary I wonder: is it about Zebra, Linux or has anybody here a brain overload?

There's plenty of videos for Zebra, I learned to stop
spinning my wheels when getting in too deep.
Relax, and just play the music for a while, and get back to
the nuts and bolts of it later, when the blood pressure comes
down enough where you can hear it's not just more drums...

[low_low]

That was my initial point when I said in my first reply on this topic that it doesn't matter what you or anybody else thinks of Linux. It's not supported enough to do any kind of serious audio or video work.

And yet lots of serious audio and video work has been and continues to be done on Linux...

What do you define as serious work?
And examples/evidence in the audio world please?
rsp

I don't have time to read past this response now, I'll try to catch up later ... but most (all ?) of the render farms for 3d work is on linux, and so is the vfx change for hollywood titles. Maya, Nuke, etc, all these applications run on linux, and so does the software for professional camera gear. I'm not just jerking you around .. linux is the &^%$ in hollywood films. You had some good links earlier, go do some searches about linux and hollywood movies, a real eye opener. Of course if all you care about is numbers and not who is using them, then Adobe Premiere and other consumer grade products are going to have higher numbers, but what else would you expect when a maya license runs you 190$us/month (3 year license is approx 4000$us), and a nuke license is running 4500$us, or you can rent at 1500$us/quarter. Of course, that's the low end, if you bump up to Nuke studio you're talking 9700$us/per seat.

I understand the perspective of Windows users in this forum, I really do ... but I think their lack of knowledge about how Linux is used in the real world really colors their understanding.

Using an argument like "Linux visual effects software only has 2% of the market" is like saying ferrari's suck because they "only make up 1% of car sales". Most consumers just use consumer stuff, if they want a video camera they go out and get whatever they can find for under 1000$us, if they want a piece of software they go out and spend under 500$us, but that has NOTHING to do with what businesses that have to meet production quotas, etc, use in their production chains. They don't care if they drop 10,000$us on a piece of software if its saving them a million. They don't use the same economics calculations that the average person uses when they are making their decisions.

To the audio world ... are professional studios doing all their work on DAW's ? I'm not part of that world, so I don't know, but I agree with your point in general that small studios are and that they are cost conscious, and make up the vast majority of the market. I don't think Linux has penetrated this market very much at all, except for music distribution, sales, collaboration, etc, and not actual audio production, but I'd have to read more about it to see. I have no idea what hollywood is doing, but I would assume they are using DAWs on windows, etc.

I'll try to catch up on the rest of the thread later.

[glokraw]

for developers to spend precious R&D time and money to develop for a fringe OS (to the Audio world) just doesn't make much sense to me, and I don't see it happening.
rsp

,
If U-he were to branch out into hardware products,
as IK are doing, they'll have paved their own shortcut,
as many name brand products use an embedded linux
under the hood. A hardware Bazilleathon?

Even Native Instruments are hiring linux peeps:

https://jobs.livecareer.com/l/embedded- ... 9b136cd79f

http://www.nime.org/proceedings/2017/ni ... er0051.pdf

https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/ ... pic=2104.0

yada yada who yo fada?

[glokraw]

BTW - What happened to the KDE Office?

Calligra is a kde based office product

Calligra contains:
* Words: word processor
* Sheets: spreadsheet
* Stage: presentations
* Flow: diagram generator
* Some filters (Excel 97, Winword 97/2000, etc.)
* karbon: the scalable vector drawing application for KDE.
* plan: a project management.
* kexi: an integrated data management application.
* Gemini: office suite for 2-in-1 devices

[mevla]

Again, it's a matter of context. If Rihanna's producer (who is not on KVR) states that Linux is crap for audio I'll just pass by and not bother at all. He's making lot$, has many contracts, etc, etc.

The context at KVR is very different. A metaphor:

I like my table saw. It does a pretty good job of cutting wood which in turn contributes to making things. I do not love it, I like its usefulness. If people on a woodworking forum are saying that this table saw is crap and starts spreading false notions about it for whatever reason (1) I would object for the simple reason of the community aspect. There are other people who might want to get into woodworking without spending $$$ and for whom that tool would be just right. To not reply about the false notions is to not do any service to the community.

(1) One of them can be an addiction to flashy gadgets. To what usually one can ask in return to hear some music production they are doing or they have done. In some cases it's total silence., As if they are only building up a collection of plugins and not much else. Like the guy who goes to the Home Depot weekly to get tools and stuff but is not doing much. But he has tools ! I'm sure there's a certain quantity of people like that on KVR.

To recap, I initially replied that I'm waiting for Zebra3 on Linux (as all u-he plugins have a native Linux port, like it or not) and then people started to slam Linux, expecting to qualifying anyone who would reply as a religiously Linux fanatic.

[pdxindy]

That was my initial point when I said in my first reply on this topic that it doesn't matter what you or anybody else thinks of Linux. It's not supported enough to do any kind of serious audio or video work.

And yet lots of serious audio and video work has been and continues to be done on Linux...

What do you define as serious work?
And examples/evidence in the audio world please?
rsp

Wow this thread has exploded...

All depends on how you define serious... to me, serious means meaningful creative content.

Maybe for you serious means lots of money involved. By that definition, I don't know much about audio production and Linux, but Linux is essential for many big hollywood movies. Plenty of high end editing software is on Linux and many if not most render farms are Linux based.

I used to do 3D modeling work... I have/had friends who are high end animators, modelers, matte painters, working on top movies. Linux is respected and valued in those circles. I saw lots of setups where the creative was using Windows machine for directly working and offloading the rendering to a Linux network. None of them were badmouthing Linux.

Back to the definition of serious... Personally, I find most hollywood movies to be mostly empty entertainment... incredibly well produced empty entertainment. Same for most pop music. Almost all of it completely devoid of meaningful discourse on the most important issues facing humanity today. I have a friend about to publish his 5th book... all done on a Linux computer. He is never going to make much money from his work, but I consider it serious scholarly work... well researched, well written and of important social value.

There are people all over the world using Linux for serious media production (by my definition). Especially in some of the poorer countries, Linux is of great value... I think the snarky attitude about it reflects an elitist cultural attitude. Use whatever OS and software you wish and that you can afford... but why belittle something that is useful for other people in different situations?

[zvenx]

14 pages wow.. Yes I was asking about audio not video.... As the assertion was audio and video (or video and audio). Anyway

@mevla I actually did try to find links with hollywood and linux and whilst I sure there are some, I personally didn't find much links beyond cgi and animation..

Anyway 14 pages.. Just too much
Rsp

[glokraw]

In my linux setups, I've got around 100,000 commercial presets
from a wide range of great software, not counting hundreds of
Reaktor ensembles and instruments, with their snaps sounds,
and AIEP3 stashed away on a win7 crate...Where's the time
to even scratch the surface?

Seriously, anything not at my fingertips can be aquired
with some sacrifices (that would be healthy anyway!)
I worry more about practice time than which OS I'm using.
It is in fact possible, and recommended, to freeze a working linux audio setup, and not be involved in constant updates,
with the freedom to choose a studio on a cd, dvd, usbstick,
small ssd, huge terrabyte drives, or exotic disc arrays.
Suit the budget or the dream. You can get a lot done
without needing a heat-shield to save you from the
latest cpu, and the working environments are extremely
configurable. An hour working in win7,
feels like a week stranded on the moors
In Studio 1337 RT setup, my biggest trouble is it's so fast
that if I double click to open a window, I've often
hit an icon in the new window, and it's launching whatever
was under the pointer ...

A lot of new linux users are arriving now that Reaper has gone
semi-official, and many are delighted to hear about U-he and discoDSP, and linvst plugin wrapping. Those falling prey to some
win10 update fiasco, or shocked at mac price increases,
have alternatives.
Freedom is experienced in your mind, spirit, and environment.
'Industry' stats and hype are irrelevant, and can be in some cases,
a refuge for those seeking friends via brand acceptance,
rather than breaking new ground. And I'm surely guilty
of that in a few regards. I hope people enjoy
a Cubase or ProTools experience, as I do mine in linux,
the end results, creating/recording music worth hearing
more than once, is a worthy goal, and rewarding in and of itself.
Cheers

[glokraw]

All depends on how you define serious... to me, serious means meaningful creative content.

Back to the definition of serious... Personally, I find most hollywood movies to be mostly empty entertainment... incredibly well produced empty entertainment. Same for most pop music. Almost all of it completely devoid of meaningful discourse on the most important issues facing humanity today.

There are people all over the world using Linux for serious media production (by my definition). Especially in some of the poorer countries, Linux is of great value...?

Very well said, clean water, sanitary food, and sleep without
the sounds and ravages of war are rarities in this day and age.
Cheers

[dandezebra]

I was learning Zebra 2 and doing pretty well, I thought, when this thread started.

I read most of it.

Now, I don't even know what DAW stands for anymore and I think an oscillator is something related to a fan. My OS hurts.