My first week using REAL TAPE (vs plugins)

[zenvoxpop]

I'm beginning to get a feel for what tape actually does.

It makes your audio sound muddy and unrefined.

Plugins are NOT so far off from real tape sound.

Why would anyone want to emulate real tape sound ? It's a step backwards. What's next a plugin that emulates a 60Hz Hum ?

Man, I wish I could see the world as black an white as you do.

I got 2 questions for you boi.
1. Go listen to some Steely Dan albums? Hear any muddiness?
2. Did you actually ever used proper tape machine?

[zenvoxpop]

IMHO, tape simulators don't sound like real tape.

I didn't say plugins sounds like tape, of course they don't, only tape sounds like tape.
Just like only VOS ThrillseekerVBL sounds like VOS ThrillseekerVBL, it goes both way

But in context of mixing and getting job done, I find that some plugins come really
close to some characteristics of magnetic tape, or are at least much closer than I expected.

[Havok]

I fixed and calibrated about 50 tape decks.
IMHO, tape simulators don't sound like real tape.
If you really need tape sound, using real tape would be the only solution.
I think what users need is good saturator and not an actual tape sound for the most time.
I also have few of my favorite tape simulators to get nice saturation but never use to substitute the real one.

Here is my comparison, 4 tape decks VS popular tape plugins.
AmenBreak -> DA -> Real Tape -> AD
AmenBreak -> Plugins (96kHz/24bit) -> DA-> AD
https://clyp.it/qk5oqxqu

You can clearly hear the difference between plugin and analog.
(And you may also noticed some plugs work pretty well!)
Check yourself how the real tape kill the attack, and how it decrease low and high.

Sorry to be cheeky but is there any chance of a WAV download of this? Those first 4 sound great!

[Kinh]

Shit, this is a very interesting thread

[keltech]

old thread but some great posts in it by the people that have machines.

I use a reel to reel machine for mastering some tracks it does sound great thick bottom end,cohesive, top end roll off, however some tracks sound great on it and other don't they sound dull. I've tried many tape plugins they do impart something onto the audio be it good or bad but it's not exactly true tape . one advantage they do have is no high noise floor like real tape even run at 15ips (tape speed). get a low section break down in your tune you suddenly hear the noise hiss that with modern DAWs has been extinct for decades. i don't mind noise personally
the best one I've used is the ampex one by UAD ,lots of options but still doesn't give me that low end cohesive thickness compared to the real thing. hornet is good as well great little effect and super value.

when I got into using reel to reel I had to learn quite a bit about tape machines, their speed and the fact you do have to get them calibrated with a specialist engineer you can not do it yourself unless you have an expensive mrl test tape and an oscilloscope. may not be worth all the hassle if the sound you want is probably not tape more analog top end roll off and a better bottom end eq curve.
every tape machines has a different sound anyway revox aka studer are the most popular, but there are plenty out there I personally use a tascam and have a teac. the slower the speed say 3.5, 7.5 it sounds more "tapey" then running at pro speed 15ips, run it as 30ips you will get little to zero "tape saturation sound"
type of tape you use makes a difference too, some you can run the signal hotter then others, the tendency is to to run it too hot and it just sounds over compressed. sometimes I feel it narrows the stereo field a little and does weird things to it which is probably because the tape is moving on the head slightly.
Theres only one manufacturer selling new tape at the date of this post so you need your machine calibrated to that, buying old tape which is now 30 years old is a gamble it will clog up the heads or sound rubbish. Having said all that to me the hassle is worth it just like using any music hardware,
I love my tape machine and they look amazing sat there in the studio with its large metal reels.

anyway just thought i'd add to this great thread incase someone was thinking of going down the tape machine route as an effect and wanted some tech info. it is a hassle and might not be the what you are really looking for

[low_low]

I have like ZERO appreciation for tape. I don't know if it is because I'm on headphones most of the time, or what ... but when I listen to the tape plugins I'm like ... yeah, sounds exactly the same to me unless it is very exaggerated. I wonder if sitting in front of studio monitors with actual bass, etc, helps you gain an appreciation.

[EvilDragon]

Tape is not just about bass.


Anyways, the answer is Satin.

[radio12]

We have a few tape machines in the studio, two revox, a retired MCi 16 Track, and the telefunken M15. I think the approach to send a finished master through tape and expect miracles does not work, in fact up to now, no one liked the tape version better, if you send all your tracks and softsynths to a 24 track and start mixing maybe would bring out the good things tape can do, but it is also dependent on what kind of music it is. Test it with tape emulation plugins which got better and better. beside that, i am really happy that i don't have to work with tape anymore, to see the tracks lined up in a daw, i don't want to miss, things are so much easier today.

[keltech]

don't think i would ever go to the hassle of recording each track to tape then line them up again, i bet it would add a lot of charactor though, hat's off to you for doing that.
i just like to master it onto tape to get that subtle effect tighten up the lowend. old skool hip hop tracks is all i really use it on and it works well for me.

[foosnark]

I have like ZERO appreciation for tape. I don't know if it is because I'm on headphones most of the time, or what ... but when I listen to the tape plugins I'm like ... yeah, sounds exactly the same to me unless it is very exaggerated.

I feel the same about most tape plugins. Unless you're setting the controls to extremes, it just doesn't make a lot of difference.

I really like the sound that William Basinski and Hainbach get from tape -- but that uses tape and/or equipment in poor condition, among other things.

I kind of want to play with real tape -- a Libary of Congress C-1 or a late 70s Fisher-Price casette recorder or a microcasette recorder -- but I've gotten the results I want without it. Gain staging and compression to emphasize hardware noise floor, some shelving EQ, a little artificial warbling (from a guitar pedal's slow sutble "vibrato" fully wet). Or for easy mode, VHS or Tape Mate in Reaktor, Klevgrand DAW Casette and DAW LP, etc.

[chk071]

I don't quite get the appeal of tape as well, but, hey, if it has a use for some, and can be used as a creative effect, why not? The issue i have with it is that it applies a certain set of characteristics, and you somewhat lose control over what you want to add specifically. I think i'd rather add saturation, compression, delay or flanger myself, when i want, or need it.

Hope noone is mad at me when i add, though, that it seems to have a kind of esoteric effect on people, just like vinyl. Or anything other analog. Even though i'd agree that analog can sure sound good. It can distort like mad as well though, or sound very harsh, muddy, add a lot of hum and noise, and other unwanted stuff, you name it.

[low_low]

I don't quite get the appeal of tape as well, but, hey, if it has a use for some, and can be used as a creative effect, why not?

Yeah I want to like tape, I mean, who doesn't want another u-he plugin, right ?

Regarding ye old analogue ... I remember in the 90's when everyone was freaking out because they were finally able to get away from analog, the boards were full of conversations about the amazing low noise floor on digital, you could chain as many signal paths as you want with zero loss, constant signal-to-noise without distortion, etc ... how things change. Now people want to go back to having to photograph the patches on their 1000$us modular synths //shrug//. Personally I'll stick w/ digital, with a few analog effects and VST emulations for sure.

[keltech]

taking photo's of a mixer setup is a great Idea, I never thought of that back then, probably because you had to wait a week for your photos to arrive back from the shop unlike today.

I think analog gear have this rose tinted glasses thing, all I remember about programming my synths,mixers and my little esi 32 sampler in the 90's was how frustrating and long winded it was just to do a basic task. my mixer was full of stickers to try and recall settings and it never sounded the same twice. so lucky these days with instant recall ability.

[low_low]

taking photo's of a mixer setup is a great Idea, I never thought of that back then, probably because you had to wait a week for your photos to arrive back from the shop unlike today.

I think analog gear have this rose tinted glasses thing, all I remember about programming my synths,mixers and my little esi 32 sampler in the 90's was how frustrating and long winded it was just to do a basic task. my mixer was full of stickers to try and recall settings and it never sounded the same twice. so lucky these days with instant recall ability.

THIS

... and .. noise ...... so much noise .... now they don't understand that the reason you didn't string 5 pieces of equipment together and do a lot of the modern effects was because NOISE ...

Old music doesn't sound good because of these problems, it sounds good DESPITE these problems.

[digitalboytn]

so lucky these days with instant recall ability.