Do not underestimate Reason...

[moldofunker]

Reason could be a good toy to have around if it wasn't so closed. If Reason 3 will support vst, will handle recording and have a propper sequencer maybe threads like this one will not begin with "do not underestimate". Oh and the refill thingie.. is the proof that p-heads rely only on marketing and entry-level users. Now p-heads is searching for GUI designers which tells me that their main concern is yet look-related. To me reason is like a great looking blonde with great tits and hard ass looking to re-wire herself with a mature Nuendo with a big score and a testarosa vsti

[soulkraka]

One thing I never understood in Reason is why everything sounds so.... MONO. You know what I mean? I make a song and in mastering stage I really have to try and spreaden the stereo field. Ofcourse you can pan instruments, but then this isn't quite the same thing. Is this a common known problem? Because if someone does know a fix to this, I'm all ears.

Skaven,this is a technique I learned from an engineer a long time ago.

this is what you do:

1. load up a sound that you think is "mono sounding" in either NNXT or Malstrom.
2. route the left out into mixer channel 1 left input.
3. create a delay unit (auto-routing off)
4. route the right instrument output into the delay left in, route delay left out to mixer channel 2 left in.
5. pan mixer channels 1 and 2 hard left and right.
6. set delay unit to 0% feedback and delay range around 7-25 ms.

sound wide enough for you? thought so

I see a lot of people complain about various apps and plugs that just dont have mixing and/or sound design skills. If something is not sounding good dont blame the app, learn.

[Skaven83]

One thing I never understood in Reason is why everything sounds so.... MONO. You know what I mean? I make a song and in mastering stage I really have to try and spreaden the stereo field. Ofcourse you can pan instruments, but then this isn't quite the same thing. Is this a common known problem? Because if someone does know a fix to this, I'm all ears.

Skaven,this is a technique I learned from an engineer a long time ago.

this is what you do:

1. load up a sound that you think is "mono sounding" in either NNXT or Malstrom.
2. route the left out into mixer channel 1 left input.
3. create a delay unit (auto-routing off)
4. route the right instrument output into the delay left in, route delay left out to mixer channel 2 left in.
5. pan mixer channels 1 and 2 hard left and right.
6. set delay unit to 0% feedback and delay range around 7-25 ms.

sound wide enough for you? thought so

I see a lot of people complain about various apps and plugs that just dont have mixing and/or sound design skills. If something is not sounding good dont blame the app, learn.

I hear what you're saying. I've used the same technique in Logic with the Stereo Delay plugin. Although this technique works, I find it stupid to use a delay unit on every instrument and sample I use in Reason. In Logic, even if you didn't use a delay plugin, it would sound stereo.

[soulkraka]

One thing I never understood in Reason is why everything sounds so.... MONO. You know what I mean? I make a song and in mastering stage I really have to try and spreaden the stereo field. Ofcourse you can pan instruments, but then this isn't quite the same thing. Is this a common known problem? Because if someone does know a fix to this, I'm all ears.

Skaven,this is a technique I learned from an engineer a long time ago.

this is what you do:

1. load up a sound that you think is "mono sounding" in either NNXT or Malstrom.
2. route the left out into mixer channel 1 left input.
3. create a delay unit (auto-routing off)
4. route the right instrument output into the delay left in, route delay left out to mixer channel 2 left in.
5. pan mixer channels 1 and 2 hard left and right.
6. set delay unit to 0% feedback and delay range around 7-25 ms.

sound wide enough for you? thought so

I see a lot of people complain about various apps and plugs that just dont have mixing and/or sound design skills. If something is not sounding good dont blame the app, learn.

I hear what you're saying. I've used the same technique in Logic with the Stereo Delay plugin. Although this technique works, I find it stupid to use a delay unit on every instrument and sample I use in Reason. In Logic, even if you didn't use a delay plugin, it would sound stereo.

I would never suggest using this technique on every sound. In fact, that would almost surely turn your mix into unintelligable mush. In my tracks I usually end up converting quite a few files to mono just to fit and mix in better.

[Kim Lajoie]

this is what you do:

1. load up a sound that you think is "mono sounding" in either NNXT or Malstrom.
2. route the left out into mixer channel 1 left input.
3. create a delay unit (auto-routing off)
4. route the right instrument output into the delay left in, route delay left out to mixer channel 2 left in.
5. pan mixer channels 1 and 2 hard left and right.
6. set delay unit to 0% feedback and delay range around 7-25 ms.

sound wide enough for you? thought so

Remember that this'll do weird things to your sound if your music ever becomes popular enough to have people summing it to mono...

Forever,




Kim.

[headquest]

I used Reason constantly. It used to be all I used, and then I would sample it in Live3 and work with VST Effects on those parts and have a ball.

Now, I use it with Live4 and it is a great way to go. I can easily layer tons of Reason modules in Live with no CPU hit, add some nifty VST Effects, and sequence in Live. Its the ultimate setup as far as I'm concerned.

Live and Reason are a great combination - I use both, too (and Tracktion, depending on the track I am working on...)

With Live and Reason you still lack audio editing and mastering though... if you don;t have anything already for this I highly recommend Adobe Audition, which can act as a ReWire host.

Audition is a fantastic audio editor, but also a fully-featured audio sequencer, boasting 128 tracks. you can assign ReWire to bring in 64 Reason tracks as well as Live tracks. Audition provides, imho, a better mixing environment than either of the slave programmes.

Alternatively, if your Reason tracks are being triggered within Live 4, the trick would be to bounce them down in Live and then open Live as a ReWire slave within Audition to do mixing and mastering.

The only other thing missing in the Live/Reason combination is Freeze and PDC, and this is where Tracktion comes in for me - and it, too, can act as a ReWire host.

[headquest]

Bleh. Rewire to me is a clumsy work around to Reason's innability to complete music on its own.

I disagree there, AD80...

Whether or not you are right about the Props intention when they developed ReWire, I think that it is fair to say running two programmes together via ReWire can enlarge the usefulness of noth programmes far more than simple plug-ins.

Take for example Reason / Tracktion...

Tracktion lacks decent synths, sound modules and sampling. Also a good drum machine. Reason beings all these into the fold. But on its own, Reason lacks audio and VST, which Tracktion adds to the equation.

Both are extreemly stable and relatively low on CPU. You would need a whole pilke of plug-ins within Tracktion to get close to what Reason brings to the party.

It's true that you have to save your work in BOTH programmes, but this is fair enough. I have often used plug-ins within Tracktion, only to find that all the settings were lost when I next opened the programme. VST plug-ins are often unstable, and often don;t save their settings. So I think it is unfair when people slag off ReWire on those grounds.

I do wish that more applications would implement ReWire better, however. Sonar only allows 16 Reason tracks, for example, and people sometiomes wrongly assume the problem is with the ReWire protocol... it's not! The problem is with Sonar in this instance (cool programme though ).

Also it would be good if more programmes would run in ReWire slave mode, and not just as hosts. This would make ReWire even more useful. Again, though, the issue is with other developers and their implementation, and not with ReWire itself.

[BONES]

You would need a whole pilke of plug-ins within Tracktion to get close to what Reason brings to the party.

Which you could easily buy instead of Reason for a whole lot less money and stuffing about.

I have often used plug-ins within Tracktion, only to find that all the settings were lost when I next opened the programme.

I thought you said Traktion was stable? That's sure as hell never happenned to me.

This would make ReWire even more useful. Again, though, the issue is with other developers and their implementation, and not with ReWire itself.

Or maybe the issue is why the f**k developers need yet another standard to implement when there were plenty around, any of which the Props could have used if they f**king well wanted. Again it comes back to their OTT marketing mindset.

[headquest]

Hi Bones! We meet again - and back on our favourite topic

Which you could easily buy instead of Reason for a whole lot less money and stuffing about.

I don't think you could actually, although I agree with you that there are loads of good VST plugs around . Whether or not one likes the overall Reason package, some of the modules are unquestionably outstanding - NN-XT, Maelstrom, ReDrum for starters. To buy an equivalent VST sampler to comete with NN-XT would set your back a fair bit for starters, and then a decent drum synth instead of ReDrum...etc. I think the price would add up to quite a bit. Sure you could select each element to suit your personal taste, but I think there would be qwuite a price tag (unless you went for freeware stuff, used soundfonts instead of a multisampler, etc... but in that case you usually get what you pay for).

I think that the best way to get a good range of instruments and effects for - say, under £200 - is to buy a soft studio package, of which Reason is just one example. FL, Orion and Storm being obvious alternatives in that price range.

I thought you said Traktion was stable? That's sure as hell never happenned to me.

Not a Tracktion issue so far as I know - but an issue with VST plugins. For example, SampleTank and Plugsound, where I always have to reload sounds when I reopen projects. (many others, this is not the case, so I assume the issue is with SampleTank and Plugsound, but correct me if I'm wrong).

The point is, nothing is perfect in life, but I find ReWire useful - and not just as a Reason user! For eample, I use Adobe Audition, which acts as a ReWire host, to mix and master stuff done in Ableton Live 4. I have recently tried the same with the FL demo. Audition provides a real improvement wo those programmes in the mixing and mastering stage. Nothing to do with Reason!

ReWire is implemented in more mainstream music software than VST, AU, DX, RTAS etc - all of which seem locked in a pointless competition fuelled by rival sequencer developers (Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc). ReWire is fairly universal now, and I find it very useful.

Or maybe the issue is why the f**k developers need yet another standard to implement when there were plenty around, any of which the Props could have used if they f**king well wanted.

Like I just pointed out, none of the other plug in formats are universal - they are locked into a pointless competition.

I know you have a problem with Propellorheads' marketing - as you see it - but I really don;t see them advertising any more than any other developer... in fact I see FAR more adverts for Cakewalk stuff, etc.

I think that it is just that Reason has a striking and unusual GUI compared to other software, and this makes it memorable when you do see it.
[/quote]

[AD80]

......... I have often used plug-ins within Tracktion, only to find that all the settings were lost when I next opened the programme. VST plug-ins are often unstable, and often don;t save their settings.

I've never had this happen in Tracktion in over a year of daily use. And VST Plug-ins are often STABLE for me. There is no stability advantage using Reason for me compared to Tracktion becuase neither of them crash. So thats equal. People talk about the Props like its the only company that can make stable software .

I think its weird that anytime people talk about Reason they're so quick to praise Rewire. I mean its not the same as having Reason as a effect and synth rack becuase you cant use Reason's effects on other tracks within your host. So if I'm just using Reason as a giant stand alone synth I rather just use VST's that intergrate seamlesly into my host and have total recall. And arguably sound a lot better.

IMHO Reason was meant to function on its own. Atleast thats what all the adds led me to believe. If I need to run it with another app it defeats the purpose. The synths dont sound good enough to be worth the hassle.

Ofcourse thats only my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people love the sound of Reason and use it by itself. I used to too, before I discovered VST's .

[soulkraka]

[quote="BONES"]
Which you could easily buy instead of Reason for a whole lot less money and stuffing about.
[quote]


Oh ya? I'd love to have a vst 'verb that sounds as good as RV-7000 with a COMPARABLE CPU hit. Enlighten me.

[Emerald Tablet]

I played around with reason the other day - I must say i was impressed. Than again the whole idea of the music hardware world coded in 1`s and 0`s still amazes me everyday I bet many people make lovely music with reason. I already have my hosts and a choice between hundreds of vst`s

[headquest]

Yes, the mastering sucks because I suck at mastering (sorry about the crackling, I just haven't had time to sort it and the bass is prolly hot because all I have are headphones). NoAC

Hi there drez!

I agree with everything you said .

Regarding mastering, try ReWiring Reason into Adobe Audition. Hot . Or if you can't afford it, Tracktion does a good job, especially now it has Final Mix - a $399 mastering plugin - FREE .

Oh, and get some speakers .

And before Bones starts off again about Reason being incomplete and needing better mastering - in response to my recommendations above - I'd just like to point out that there is a consensus that you do your mastering in a seperate application WHATEVER host you use (even Cubase, Orion, Logic, etc). It's just the way professionals generally work, and not yet another excuse for slagging off Reason (which I believe from another thread Bones last tried out at version 1.0 ).

[Sascha Franck]

Not a Tracktion issue so far as I know - but an issue with VST plugins. For example, SampleTank and Plugsound, where I always have to reload sounds when I reopen projects. (many others, this is not the case, so I assume the issue is with SampleTank and Plugsound, but correct me if I'm wrong).

Rest assured, it IS a Tracktion issue. Other hosts don't suffer from those problem.
It has been a Logic problem quite a while ago too, the reason being that the required preset data to be saved inside the song file was exceeding some max. limit.
Now this is stuff from the past.

And btw, fwiw, I hate ReWire for various reasons. I hate switching between programs, I hate having to save more than one file (let alone backing things up when all your sampler patches and the likes require to be saved as well) and I hate not having direct access to things.

[headquest]

Sound Quality.

Regarding comments above about sound quality and stereo spread, the following answer recently given in CM magazine may be helpful:

"Reason often comes under fire for allegedly not sounding as good as other music applications, and we believe that the cause of this is actually the way the mixer sums signals. If you plug the left and right outputs from any device into one channel of the mixer (as happens by default when a Device is created) the volume of it is reduced by 6dB, whereas if you plug the left and right outputs into individual mixer channels, it isn't. The drop in volume is percieved by many as a drop in quality, so try splitting your outputs and I think you should find the sound more to your liking" (Ronan MacDonald)

Hope this helps