KVR Audio

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:47 pm

Depends on the size of your screen. I work at 135% and for me it is fine..and the pop up rate is just fine for me too.
rsp

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:47 pm

himalaya wrote:
moshimoshi wrote:
himalaya wrote:
Cinebient wrote: Dune 2 is also nice as you can use the OSC in unison as modulation source.
Try using the oscillators in Cypher as mod sources for audio-rate modulation. Send it to anything you desire. This is on top of the hard-wired osc FM and Filter FM.
Is this true? I haven't tried Cypher2 yet (won't have time to demo for a while ) but I thought everything in transmod is control rate not audio rate. seems to say this in the manual as well - cant find the reference now but I'm sure I saw this somewhere in it.
Yes, you correct, TransMod runs at control-rate but try sending the frequency of osc 1 to modulate the frequency of osc 2, it the sound of audio-rate modulation.

It's the sound of control rate modulation... not audio rate...

lastmessiah · Post by **lastmessiah** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:57 pm

The GUI is vector-based, you can scale it up or down...

lastmessiah · Post by **lastmessiah** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:59 pm

pdxindy wrote:
himalaya wrote:
moshimoshi wrote:
himalaya wrote:
Cinebient wrote: Dune 2 is also nice as you can use the OSC in unison as modulation source.
Try using the oscillators in Cypher as mod sources for audio-rate modulation. Send it to anything you desire. This is on top of the hard-wired osc FM and Filter FM.
Is this true? I haven't tried Cypher2 yet (won't have time to demo for a while ) but I thought everything in transmod is control rate not audio rate. seems to say this in the manual as well - cant find the reference now but I'm sure I saw this somewhere in it.
Yes, you correct, TransMod runs at control-rate but try sending the frequency of osc 1 to modulate the frequency of osc 2, it the sound of audio-rate modulation.
It's the sound of control rate modulation... not audio rate...

Audio-rate modulation refers to modulating a parameter at the very fast speeds of audio waveforms, as
opposed to the slower speeds of LFOs and envelopes (known as control-rate modulation). The audiorate
modulation in Cypher2 is the result of extremely detailed modelling, and strives to reproduce the
complex behaviour that results when modulating analogue components at audio-rate.
Here's a summary of what Cypher2 can do in this respect:
• Audio-rate frequency modulation of Osc1 by Osc2 using the FM 2 control on Osc1
• Audio-rate frequency modulation of Osc1 by Osc3 using the FM 3 control on Osc1
• Audio-rate frequency modulation of Osc2 by Osc3 using the FM 3 control on Osc2
• Audio-rate waveform modulation of Osc3 by Osc2 using the WM 2 control on Osc3

That's from the manual.

Cinebient · Post by **Cinebient** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:09 pm

lastmessiah wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
himalaya wrote:
moshimoshi wrote:
himalaya wrote:
Cinebient wrote: Dune 2 is also nice as you can use the OSC in unison as modulation source.
Try using the oscillators in Cypher as mod sources for audio-rate modulation. Send it to anything you desire. This is on top of the hard-wired osc FM and Filter FM.
Is this true? I haven't tried Cypher2 yet (won't have time to demo for a while ) but I thought everything in transmod is control rate not audio rate. seems to say this in the manual as well - cant find the reference now but I'm sure I saw this somewhere in it.
Yes, you correct, TransMod runs at control-rate but try sending the frequency of osc 1 to modulate the frequency of osc 2, it the sound of audio-rate modulation.
It's the sound of control rate modulation... not audio rate...
Audio-rate modulation refers to modulating a parameter at the very fast speeds of audio waveforms, as
opposed to the slower speeds of LFOs and envelopes (known as control-rate modulation). The audiorate
modulation in Cypher2 is the result of extremely detailed modelling, and strives to reproduce the
complex behaviour that results when modulating analogue components at audio-rate.
Here's a summary of what Cypher2 can do in this respect:
• Audio-rate frequency modulation of Osc1 by Osc2 using the FM 2 control on Osc1
• Audio-rate frequency modulation of Osc1 by Osc3 using the FM 3 control on Osc1
• Audio-rate frequency modulation of Osc2 by Osc3 using the FM 3 control on Osc2
• Audio-rate waveform modulation of Osc3 by Osc2 using the WM 2 control on Osc3

That's from the manual.

Now i´m confused.
I think important is if the synth engine update the modulations really at audio rate.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:10 pm

bbtr wrote:And the pop-ups get in the way.

I don't mind that so much... but the popups are not telling you what is going on.

For example, hover over cutoff... you get the same popup message whether you are hovering over cutoff or cutoff modulation.

Filter 1 Cutoff popup says Filt1Scale 1.000hm - The control is called Cutoff, but the popup and automation parameter is called Scale. That is confusing.

I'm not sure what the value means. 1.000 hm - Turn the cutoff to the left and the next value is 1/1.067 hm (is there some way to have finer control?) - It's an unusual representation... maybe once I understood it I would appreciate it, but at first it is confusing.

The Filter Drive knob seems to change the cutoff value... maybe that is only for some filter models.

lastmessiah · Post by **lastmessiah** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:12 pm

Cinebient wrote:

Now i´m confused.
I think important is if the synth engine update the modulations really at audio rate.

What are you talking about? They are at audio rate. Yes, you are confused.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:13 pm

lastmessiah wrote:The GUI is vector-based, you can scale it up or down...

the biggest it can go on my laptop screen is 110%... it's readable at that size... It is still too easy to get the modulation ring instead of the parameter itself... which is annoying because double click does not reset the parameter

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:16 pm

lastmessiah wrote:
Cinebient wrote:

Now i´m confused.
I think important is if the synth engine update the modulations really at audio rate.
What are you talking about? They are at audio rate. Yes, you are confused.

The dedicated FM controls are at audio rate. If you select Osc 1 as a Transmod source, that is not audio rate, but control rate

lastmessiah · Post by **lastmessiah** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:18 pm

pdxindy wrote:
lastmessiah wrote:
Cinebient wrote:

Now i´m confused.
I think important is if the synth engine update the modulations really at audio rate.
What are you talking about? They are at audio rate. Yes, you are confused.
The dedicated FM controls are at audio rate. If you select Osc 1 as a Transmod source, that is not audio rate, but control rate

Yeah we already established that audio rate is through the oscillators only.

Whywhy · Post by **Whywhy** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:36 pm

Audio rate for filters too not FM thrue zero , TZ, like the oscillators but audio rate mod.
The power comes, for me, from the transmod, the flexible routing and the unison.

If you think in additive synthesis, Cypher2 can have 32 osc multiply by 3 osc.

Try to fm osc1 by osc 2, add 8 voices, set in transmod unison unipolar +1, and start to offset some values with it, like fm amount, shape, filter freq, env... and you will understand why Cypher2 is unique.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:59 pm

Been playing with this now since release every time I get a chance and have to say this thing is most excellent sounding!!

Having said that, the USER INTERFACE is ridiculously horrible.

I absolutely loathe how it works. I don't much care for the colors (ALL of the presets vary from horrible to just barely usable EDIT: THIS PART CONFUSES PEOPLE. I am talking about the GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE PRESETS HERE.. NOT the actual sound presets ) and the layout sucks and the super blurry/unclear font too but those are minor niggles. What drives me absolutely bonkers and up the wall is the friggin POP UP label thing that is on everything when you hover the mouse cursor anywhere near it. I haven't hated a GUI element of anything so much in a long time. It needs to be killed with fire ASAP.

I also absolutely HATE the way the modulation "rings" are always in the way everywhere. I really wish we could turn those off. I don't want to modulate every damn knob all the time and it is extremely easy to hit that by mistake. I really wish we had a setup option of just turning it off.. or perhaps the transmod system would work as a TOGGLE button so that when you hit it once, it gets toggled on.. and now the rings are available. Then you hit the same transmod source again and it gets toggled off and all rings and mod areas around everything gets hidden. Or just make it work when a modifier key is pressed, like CMD + left click + drag for instance.

Verdict:

10/10 for sound and sound design possibilities
3/10 for GUI
5/10 for CPU usage
7/10 for bang for your buck (or 9/10 if you own strobe2)

Anyhow, due to the superb sound quality and massive sound design potential I am willing to work with this thing but if it sounded even a little bit less I'd sell this thing in an instant. This is one of the rare occasions when I think the UI is just abysmal in it's entirety. This is one case where getting a well known UI designer on board would be worth it.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:24 pm

bmanic wrote:[snip...]
Anyhow, due to the superb sound quality and massive sound design potential I am willing to work with this thing but if it sounded even a little bit less I'd sell this thing in an instant. This is one of the rare occasions when I think the UI is just abysmal in it's entirety. This is one case where getting a well known UI designer on board would be worth it.

The plight of the GUI. I don't mind the GUI at all. Nothing gets the way and I can work with it efficiently. There is no one GUI that will satisfy everyone. Usually you want to use the Pareto Principle as a target. You may be the 20%.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:00 pm

@bmaniac, are you saying you don't like the gui? I wasn't sure, you weren't quite clear

.

I personally would have prefer tabs and less crowded but not everyone likes that.
I still prefer drag and drop modulation and still find the transmod a huge challenge, but some love it.

Whilst the hovering over feedback doesn't bother me, indeed, if he had that as an option I imagine it would make more satisfied.

rsp

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:05 pm

So... I have my license and can look a bit deeper into the synth. Some interesting thing, in Cubase after some time the lot allocated RAM with Cypher2 will be released. So there must be some kind of "garbage collector". Is it a memory leak? Maybe

I don't understand the VFC1+2 section, it's not working as I would expect. It's some kind of filter master control, right? If I need to control the filter with one envelope, for some reason I must use both fader for the filter envelope amount and must have both moved up.

It's sound very analog. I replaced a typical Strobe Bass and a Minimoog Arp with Cypher2 and it works great. Here is a short track I'm working on. Some kind of "Berlin School" or "Tangerine Dream"/ "Klaus Schulze" style. This are 4 instances of Cypher2 for the prominent parts like the arp, bass etc. and a bit other stuff like Spire and Dune.

https://soundcloud.com/52degree/cypher2-school/s-DSqK4

FXpansion releases Cypher2