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marvotron
KVRian
 
511 posts since 7 Jul, 2004, from Skopje
Tj Shredder wrote:
marvotron wrote:Yes, i'm one of the developers.

The AND / OR situation was discussed and tested at length. In the end the ORs came out ahead of the ANDs although I personally prefer AND.


OR is completely useless under all circumstances. If you really want OR you can still search each word individually and get where you need to.
OR is for small collections and obviously your colleages never worked/tested with big collections.
Small collections don’t need that software!

Its as simple as that...

Discuss it again!

Only if you want to avoid empty search results it would do something, but what is wrong with finding nothing if nothing is there?
There is not a single advantage for OR...!!!


I shall pass on your comments :)
marvotron
KVRian
 
511 posts since 7 Jul, 2004, from Skopje
blazarian wrote:F-Secure Computer Protection (company: https://www.f-secure.com) reports your website as harmful and blocks it.


Thanks. I imagine it will get sorted out quickly.

It's all clean with these engines : https://www.virustotal.com/#/url/e45c93 ... /detection
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mutantdog
KVRAF
 
1612 posts since 21 Sep, 2007, from The Infinite Void
Out of interest what was the reasoning behind choosing OR over AND? I'm struggling to think of a realistic scenario when i'd prefer it. Surely, the whole point of an attribute filter is to refine the list to only the most relevant items, adding more parameters to the search field should show less results.
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twolegstoneworks
KVRian
 
1348 posts since 12 Jun, 2003, from Denmark

Postby twolegstoneworks; Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:27 pm Re: ADSR Sample Manager - "Find the perfect sound in an instant!"

Just thought I'd chime in on the AND/OR discussion. Could a solution be to include a setting in the setup. That way the user could decide what works best.

I'm all for AND btw. Also cant think of a situation where I'd want the OR. It just clutters up the result-list.
music // twolegs // geometriae
sounddesign // twolegstoneworks
blazarian
KVRist
 
69 posts since 20 Sep, 2008
Not yet tested the software, but interested to know that does it have some kind of smart algorithm to automatically add tags and analyze the samples for metadata or so?
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twolegstoneworks
KVRian
 
1348 posts since 12 Jun, 2003, from Denmark

Postby twolegstoneworks; Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:33 pm Re: ADSR Sample Manager - "Find the perfect sound in an instant!"

blazarian wrote:Not yet tested the software, but interested to know that does it have some kind of smart algorithm to automatically add tags and analyze the samples for metadata or so?


There definately is some sort of algorithm, which adds tags, but if it does anything besides scanning the filenames, I'm not sure.
music // twolegs // geometriae
sounddesign // twolegstoneworks
dentnile
KVRist
 
144 posts since 4 Apr, 2013
loopus wrote:Hey Marvotron are you part of the plugin developing team?
Can you give me an explanation about why is not possible to do a logic operator "AND" search?
(for instance "funk" AND "guitar" AND "acoustic" )?
Instead by default the search use the operator OR which is pretty useless....
if you search on Google "funk" "guitar" "acoustic" Google is going to presume that you mean AND and will give you first the results that include all the 3 words, because usually AND is the default...

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!! (well at least to me ;-)


+1

I emailed them about this after my first and only session with this software. Who wants the list of samples to become LONGER for each tag? :dog:

The software has potential but in its current form I get to the right sample faster without it.
marvotron
KVRian
 
511 posts since 7 Jul, 2004, from Skopje
twolegstoneworks wrote:
blazarian wrote:Not yet tested the software, but interested to know that does it have some kind of smart algorithm to automatically add tags and analyze the samples for metadata or so?


There definately is some sort of algorithm, which adds tags, but if it does anything besides scanning the filenames, I'm not sure.


At the moment it's entirely file (and sometimes folder) name based for tagging. The one shot / loop classification uses a combination of audio length and RMS level analysis, mainly for detecting long one shots (cymbals and such) rather than detecting short 2 beat 190 bpm gabber drum loops as loops. :)

Music Information Retrieval (MIR) is something we've discussed and are actively looking at but it's not something well established enough to just provide you with sets of immediately useful parameters for searching audio.

Sononym was just released : https://www.sononym.net/ which does use MIR techniques among other ideas (similarity searches, ML classification). I've only played around with it for about an hour, so I don't really have a strong opinion on how it works for me as a musician trying to find sounds. It does have a very nice UI though and I have a lot of respect for the people who made it (the Renoise devs afaik).

There's also Atlas : https://www.algonaut.tech/ which does some kind of MIR analysis and dimensionality reduction to group drums on a 2d plane. I like their inclusion of drum kit building.

For us the biggest request we have for that type of information is for the musical key BUT often when I ask the requester to elaborate on how they want to work with musical key information they rarely offer any insight. So i'm asking you all here:

What would you want / expect from having Musical Key available as sample metadata?

Is the root note more useful / important in practice than the musical key?

I know this idea really depends on the type of user you are : if you use it for 'shorter' samples then musical key is often not even applicable to the content in your library whereas I think this request for Musical Key often comes from people who want to work with their music collection (DJs , remixers etc..)

So our focus is always going to be on samples, after all ADSRs main business is selling samples and patches, not tracks for DJs :)
marvotron
KVRian
 
511 posts since 7 Jul, 2004, from Skopje
dentnile wrote:The software has potential but in its current form I get to the right sample faster without it.


We're hearing you all loud and clear. I think once we get this next major update out we'll be tackling the AND / OR situation in some form.
loopus
KVRer
 
6 posts since 20 May, 2001, from italy
What would you want / expect from having Musical Key available as sample metadata?


It is handful to know the root note of a musical loop (pad, guitar, key, horns etc) so we know it will fit harmonically in the context of our production or we know immediately how many semitones to transpose in order to make it fit...
Of course just listening without any indication it's possible to hear if it fits or make it fit with trial error transposes...but it's much longer and tedious especially in the context of loops browsing...

Most of the loop libraries come with a root note indication suffix already and if not they can be tagged and suffixed by special programs (i use Keyfinder for MAC works really well and it's free).

For that reason i would suggest you not to "waste" time trying to work on a complicate recognition algorythm just "read" the file name suffix, and write the tag.

The next step would be setting the song key and have the browser automatically browse / listen musical loops in the right key (AUTOTRANSPOSE!!)
marvotron
KVRian
 
511 posts since 7 Jul, 2004, from Skopje
loopus wrote:
For that reason i would suggest you not to "waste" time trying to work on a complicate recognition algorythm just "read" the file name suffix, and write the tag.


I think the same. We already have the code to get the root note suffixes from filenames, we just don't do anything with it yet.

The next step would be setting the song key and have the browser automatically browse / listen musical loops in the right key (AUTOTRANSPOSE!!)


What I think would be the obvious and most effective first step is to at least assign a sample with a detected root note to the appropriate input note, so if you have Piano_D#4 it plays D#4 on midi D#4, not on C3, that way when you play samples via the keyboard they play the notes you expect.

Overall I'm not sure how I feel about auto transpose. The thing about auto transposing previews is how much configuration do we provide.
The bare essential would be having some UI elements for setting the current root note of the song and then transposing previews to exactly that root note if we have confident root note info (either via file name suffix or some MIR)

But then my instinct would be to also preserve 5ths. I think it would feel a bit weird being in C Maj and forcing a G3 down to C3 or up to C4. So maybe a rule of 'transpose to root or 5th, whichever is nearer' would make most sense musically and also require less pitch shifting and associated loss of quality. ?

The main concern is that once a supplementary feature like this goes beyond a couple of UI elements it feels like more complexity than makes sense for a sample finding / tagging tool, so we need to get a good sense from the people who use it (or people who would like to use it but its not yet useful enough) about their ideal flows.
Zexila
KVRAF
 
3044 posts since 17 Mar, 2008
Love it, there was desperate need for exactly thing like this in my arsenal, after messing with Bitwig, I kinda wanted to have similar browser in conjunction with one shot sample player with favorites option, this thing nailed it.

If I can drop feature request, wish I could reset all my favorites with one click, reason for this is, I use this mainly as my drum one shot sample player, so I audition all my samples in folder for the given part (kick/snare/hat/etc) and best ones tag as favorites, than from the favorites tab choose the winner for the given part, wish I could just reset my favorites list after I choose best sample for the given part and move on to audition next one same way.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG
marvotron
KVRian
 
511 posts since 7 Jul, 2004, from Skopje
Zexila wrote:Love it, there was desperate need for exactly thing like this in my arsenal, after messing with Bitwig, I kinda wanted to have similar browser in conjunction with one shot sample player with favorites option, this thing nailed it.

If I can drop feature request, wish I could reset all my favorites with one click, reason for this is, I use this mainly as my drum one shot sample player, so I audition all my samples in folder for the given part (kick/snare/hat/etc) and best ones tag as favorites, than from the favorites tab choose the winner for the given part, wish I could just reset my favorites list after I choose best sample for the given part and move on to audition next one same way.


Good idea. Some kind of right-click on the main favourites icon for 'clear favourites' is my first thought.

There is definitely scope for making this particular workflow better with some kind of instance specific shortlist, rather than having to go via the global favourites but we can definitely get favourites clearing in quicker than designing and implementing a whole new system.

thanks.
Zexila
KVRAF
 
3044 posts since 17 Mar, 2008
Awesomeee. :hug:
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG
Zexila
KVRAF
 
3044 posts since 17 Mar, 2008
If I could make another suggestion/request, about accessing libraries/folders, right now search and main browser are sum of all libraries user added, my suggestion is liberty to browse different folders/tree and specify where to search, so for example if I could only search and access my "Kicks" folder, not my whole "Drums" folder.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG
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