Do not underestimate Reason...

[drez]

I use Cool Edit 2000 for audio editing. it will never be updated but I don't care because it meets all my needs beautifully.

Ok. So why is it impossible that others may use Reason because "it meets all their needs beautifully". If it was so bad, then there wouldn't be so many people using it. Crystal Method, BT, NIN, Beastie's, Liam, all use it. They can use whatever they want because they can afford it, and they do. But they all use Reason because they like it. Why is that?

I have never heard a better sounding V/A synth than WaspXT, I have never seen an easier to use [yet very powerful] sampler than ORION's, or a more straightforward drum machine than DrumRack or anything like UltranWMS. All the other native instruments are first-class, and a piece of piss to use, and the effects, including the Platinum Reverb and Platinum Diffuse Delay, are of the absolute highest quality. ORION is $200 cheaper than Reason but still comes in a box with a CD chock-full of samples, multisamples and presets on top of the 11 included instruments and almost 30 effects. It makes Reason look a tad shy in the features department and more than a little pricey, don't you think?

I own orion, and I don't think it has effects that can touch RV7000 and Scream4 nor can they touch the low CPU utilization. I can create almost any effect I want with spiders. I have the flexibility to build what I want. As for sounds, it comes with tons of sounds, they have free refills you can download from the props site.

You guys crack me up - "when I use it with Traktion", "when I use it with Live4", when I use it with Cubase" - what a joke. I use ORION with Cool Edit, two app's for doing two totally different things, not 5 app's for doing all the same things. I honestly don't know how a lot of you guys ever get anything done.

I don't get anything done because I work 70 hours a week at my day job. Are you telling me that all of the big studio's should chunk their stuff and use Orion only? That's ridiculous. As ridiculous as saying they should chunk their stuff for Reason only. Reason is a killer app that is basically a big plugin for people to use as a sound module, that's why they say "when I use it with Traktion", "when I use it with Live4". No different than when you say that you use your own plugins to augment orion. I use Reason to Augment Live4. What's the difference?

[soulkraka]

hmmm...well I cant speak for everyone else but opening up Reason from within Live requires 1, maybe 2, extra mouse clicks compared to inserting a vsti.

And that's just the start. How much longer does it take to add some of that same great-sounding delay to just one synth in Reason? Or to tweak the cutoff just a little?
In ORION, everything, and I mean every-f**king-thing, is exactly one mouse click away for me and I use it on just one of my two 1024x768 monitors. What do I mean by everything? Every instrument and effect interface, every Piano Roll and the Playlist. One mouse-click away. Just one. That's what I call workflow! Oh, it also takes just one mouse-click to insert an instrument or effect. Just one. BRILLIANT!

Thats cool...glad you found a set up your happy with. I'm happy with mine as well. Its not that I dont see your point but when I bought Reason 1.0 back in the day Orion, Storm etc etc weren't available for comparison. Of course they are now but I know Reason so well so why bother. Between Reason and Live I dont feel stifled at all. You realize that once Reason is opened you can sequence in Live so its also "one click" to open an instrument right? I also record the Reason parts as audio immediately to avoid some of the "back and forth" kinda stuff. This helps me to avoid endless tweaking of synth sounds also (just a little )

[drez]

And that's just the start. How much longer does it take to add some of that same great-sounding delay to just one synth in Reason? Or to tweak the cutoff just a little?

Reason has a cutoff knob/slider just like most apps. So all you have to do is turn/slide it.

As for the same sounding delay, yeah you are right. To add the "same sounding" delay, its easy in orion...because you have the SAME DELAY that you use every single time. I can BUILD delays that do exactly what I want. Want the LFO of the synth to change the Delay wet/dry? No problem. You want the delay amount to control the Filter on the synth? No problem. You want to be able to control the exact delay pattern? Hook a matrix to it and have fun. Want to have 2 Delays, 2 reverbs, unison, chorus, etc all merged into one effect or split into multiple effects on groups or single synths, no problem. Good luck doing those things with your stock effects and their limited routing.

In ORION, everything, and I mean every-f**king-thing, is exactly one mouse click away for me and I use it on just one of my two 1024x768 monitors. What do I mean by everything? Every instrument and effect interface, every Piano Roll and the Playlist. One mouse-click away. Just one. That's what I call workflow! Oh, it also takes just one mouse-click to insert an instrument or effect. Just one. BRILLIANT!

Guitars take forever to tune...what a workflow killer

Tweaking Reasons modules IS workflow. It immerses you into controlling the environment and creating what you want, not just slapping a reverb on a send and putting up with what it can do. I like being able to build stuff. To get the most out of Reason, you don't right click "create module" and let it autoroute onto the mixer.

People download VST's all the time that "do different things" or "sound different" because they want some "cool feature" that these new VST's have. The funny thing is, generally it is because of how the audio is routed through the VST or the way a certain feature is created that they like it.

In Reason, I can BUILD those differences myself and then save them off to templates that I can drag into other tunes. It has the building blocks to make things as complicated as you want them to be, people just have to get in their and use it.

MAX/Reaktor people do this all the time, Reason has that same flexibility.

[quincy]

MAX/Reaktor people do this all the time, Reason has that same flexibility.

Exsqueeze me?! Reason is as flexible as reaktor? Sorry mate but thats a real stretch of the imagination, but i get your point.

Unfortuantely reasons modularity used to be a unique selling point, but it isn't anymore. With people writing multi in/out plugs and modular hosts like EnergyXT, we can do all that stuff with VST's these days.

Reason has its place, but it doesn't have the edge over the competition it used to have. Its still a powerful and clever bit of software though, and its stability is rarely matched.

Anyway i'm gonna go and roll a joint. Isn't anyone else bored of these same arguments again and again?

I am, i always say the same shit in these reason threads. In fact, why the f**k an i even bothering to write this? Oh yeah - i'm bored

I'm gonna stick the kettle on, anyone want a cuppa?

[original flipper]

HI

f**k the Cuppa ... you mentioned a big fat THAI filled reefer though; didn't you?



Flipper.

[quincy]

HI

f**k the Cuppa ... you mentioned a big fat THAI filled reefer though; didn't you?



Flipper.

I don't think it thai mate, but its a reefer yeah. If you want to pop round my adress is:

Quincys House
Brighton
England

[drez]

MAX/Reaktor people do this all the time, Reason has that same flexibility.

Exsqueeze me?! Reason is as flexible as reaktor? Sorry mate but thats a real stretch of the imagination, but i get your point.

Guess I should have been more clear. Definitely Reason doesn't have the amazing programmability of Reaktor. But it doesn't eat up the CPU like Reaktor either You got my point about the modularity tho.

Unfortuantely reasons modularity used to be a unique selling point, but it isn't anymore. With people writing multi in/out plugs and modular hosts like EnergyXT, we can do all that stuff with VST's these days.

Yes, I mentioned earlier in the thread the eXT is the only thing that is coming close to Reasons routing inside a host. But it definitely isn't as intuitive nor as flexible. I can have one OSC on a synth contol an infinite number of different parameters. Then I can easily change that what OSC with another CV device. As much as people knock the paradigm of hardware that Reason has, it makes it alot easier to see those complex routings.

Granted, eXT has a visual approach, but to me it doesn't compare to Reasons and isn't as useful. I don't spend alot of time in eXT, so I'm definitely biased

[quincy]

MAX/Reaktor people do this all the time, Reason has that same flexibility.

Exsqueeze me?! Reason is as flexible as reaktor? Sorry mate but thats a real stretch of the imagination, but i get your point.

Guess I should have been more clear. Definitely Reason doesn't have the amazing programmability of Reaktor. But it doesn't eat up the CPU like Reaktor either You got my point about the modularity tho.

Unfortuantely reasons modularity used to be a unique selling point, but it isn't anymore. With people writing multi in/out plugs and modular hosts like EnergyXT, we can do all that stuff with VST's these days.

Yes, I mentioned earlier in the thread the eXT is the only thing that is coming close to Reasons routing inside a host. But it definitely isn't as intuitive nor as flexible. I can have one OSC on a synth contol an infinite number of different parameters. Then I can easily change that what OSC with another CV device. As much as people knock the paradigm of hardware that Reason has, it makes it alot easier to see those complex routings.

Granted, eXT has a visual approach, but to me it doesn't compare to Reasons and isn't as useful. I don't spend alot of time in eXT, so I'm definitely biased

Hey thats fair mate, i'm biased towards EnergyXT

However, i take issue that its not as complex or flexible. XT can handle extremely complex routings, and many plugins exist purely for complex signal flow manipulation.

You could very easily have LFO/OSC's controlling many different paramemters, switch an audio signal between different FX routings, Chain arps in clever ways and all sorts of other stuff.

The point to highlight here is that any individual who takes the time to learn their software will get the best from it.

Mark my words though, EnergyXT has power that people don't realise. Under a simple interface lies a very flexible set of tools, capable of things not possible in other hosts. And with its accelerated development the potential in another 6 months time is incredible.

[AD80]

Yes, I mentioned earlier in the thread the eXT is the only thing that is coming close to Reasons routing inside a host.

What about Tracktion's rack filters and Bidule??

[quincy]

Yes, I mentioned earlier in the thread the eXT is the only thing that is coming close to Reasons routing inside a host.

What about Tracktion's rack filters and Bidule??

Good point.

I personally think that the modular hosts are probably more flexible than reason, but i'll probably get in shit if i say that.

Would the jury please disregard that last comment

[ericj23]

sorry but rack filters are nowhere near as flexible as reason - thats just midi in and out or audio in and out - thats not audio translated into CV to then affect the filter envelope that affects the same audio

in fact im pretty sure that ext cant do that either

i may add i dont use reason ! - don't ask

[headquest]

I personally think that the modular hosts are probably more flexible than reason, but i'll probably get in shit if i say that.

I think they are pretty much the same - only presented differently. You need a lot of time to learn how to really make the most of any modular system, though imo. And in most "real" situations it helps to keep things simple, however much fun it is to experiment!

[AD80]

sorry but rack filters are nowhere near as flexible as reason - thats just midi in and out or audio in and out - thats not audio translated into CV to then affect the filter envelope that affects the same audio

in fact im pretty sure that ext cant do that either

i may add i dont use reason ! - don't ask

Just becuase they dont have CV stuff like Reason doesnt mean they're not as flexible. Thats only one feature. Rack filters can do a lot. Theres even low level building blocks that allow you to make your own audio mangling tools within a rack filter. Also at its most basic, they let you keep things tidy. You can have a group of plug-ins and drag and drop them or automatically load them on different tracks. And save/open on different songs which is also something Reason cant do. You cant save a effect chain and load it on a different song. Unless you save the whole rack and use it as a default. Its not the same.

[quincy]

sorry but rack filters are nowhere near as flexible as reason - thats just midi in and out or audio in and out - thats not audio translated into CV to then affect the filter envelope that affects the same audio

in fact im pretty sure that ext cant do that either

i may add i dont use reason ! - don't ask

Wrong about XT i'm afraid. Because XT handles multi in/out plugs, you could potentially control any parameter the plugin cares to share with you, with any other. This has obviously not been the norm in the past, but modular hosts make it possible, and i think devlopers are starting to take account of this.

I personally intend to make some plugs (with synthedit) that allow different sources to control one another, for modular madness

[drez]

sorry but rack filters are nowhere near as flexible as reason - thats just midi in and out or audio in and out - thats not audio translated into CV to then affect the filter envelope that affects the same audio

in fact im pretty sure that ext cant do that either

i may add i dont use reason ! - don't ask

Wrong about XT i'm afraid. Because XT handles multi in/out plugs, you could potentially control any parameter the plugin cares to share with you, with any other. This has obviously not been the norm in the past, but modular hosts make it possible, and i think devlopers are starting to take account of this.

I personally intend to make some plugs (with synthedit) that allow different sources to control one another, for modular madness

That is awesome! I'm glad that eXT is moving in that direction so rapidly! AD80 I totally forgot about Tracktion with rack filters...and I OWN a license!

These are both extremely flexible and development is fast and furious, specially eXT.

I used to use Tracktion, but the Rewire implementation is weak (doesn't loops worth a hoot) and MIDI editing is clumsey. Hopefully that will be sorted in 2.

I could see me delving into eXT to build some cool setups, but it would take me some time to get acclimated, and I am working so much lately, I barely have time to be creative The tutorials that the user group for eXT is doing makes it an attractive community to get involved in and Jorgen is a machine!! I've had some stability issues with it in Live, so I've steered away from it, but I guess I should give back and try to work through the issues with Jorgen. I own eXT as well!

The thing I always come back to Reason for is that its solid as a rock and the CPU util is so low, I can stack and stack and stack