Help picking a main DAW

[paradisebunny]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice on my first proper DAW purchase. I've been using Ableton 9 Intro, Reaper, Reason 10 Lite and Bitwig 8 Track extensively over the past year to form an opinion, and have come to the following conclusion (I am equally familiar with all of them):

Reaper
pro: price, performance, linux option (Wine)
con: workflow (popup windows), no software instruments (especially a usable drum rack), Interface (even with skins), just does not inspire me (I seem to make my worst music with Reaper )

Ableton
pro: nice workflow, Live Performance (would be relevant to me)
con: no instruments and rudimentary effects (standard version), price (would be most expensive to me)

Reason
pro: really fun (I seem to make my best music here), nice workflow, lots of great instruments and effects (love the "hardware" feel)
con: future proof? (tiny interface on high res), higher cost in the long run?

Bitwig
pro: fun too (equally nice music to Reason), nice workflow, Interface, good instruments and effects, Modulation fun, Live Performance!, Linux!
con: higher cost in the long run? (pricing model), future proof? (don't wanne invest in a DAW that might dissapear, no idea though, is bitwig stable as a business long-term??)

Instruments and effects are fairly important to me, as I barely own any VSTs to make up for them. Also I really like when the instruments are well integrated into the DAW (no popup windows). I don't care about loops. My budget (incl all kinds of discounts, marketplace etc) would allow for Reason 10, Bitwig, Ableton 10 Standard or Reaper. Reason and Bitwig seem to be the most feature complete packages at my budget and I am torn between the too, which of these has a brighter future in the long run? My music is anything and everything in between Jazz and Techno. I am on Windows and Linux, so Linux support is a big plus. What are your experiences if you compare Reason to Bitwig? Thanks!!

[mrj1nx]

I would say the future of Reason is probably more uncertain than the rest of them. Look into the history of it and you'll understand why. (Read some threads on the major updates). Personally I bailed and switched to Logic a few years ago.

[kovacs]

con: no instruments and rudimentary effects (standard version)

Live Standard ships with 5 instruments and 34 audio effects.

Even the Intro version has 4 instruments and 21 audio effects.

[chk071]

If you're looking for few popup windows, i could recommend Studio One. But then, you consider Reason and Bitwig as fun, so, maybe the workflow isn't too much to your liking (it's rather a "traditional" track recorder style DAW). TBH, after reading your post, I'd say, stick with Bitwig. And don't worry about futureproof. I don't think they're doing too bad.

[Vortifex]

..

[paradisebunny]

con: no instruments and rudimentary effects (standard version)

Live Standard ships with 5 instruments and 34 audio effects.

Even the Intro version has 4 instruments and 21 audio effects.

yeah, but if you look what those instruments actually are you'll know what i mean
1. drum rack
2. impulse (essentially just the old version of drum racks)
3. instrument rack (i don't consider this an instrument, but a utility)
4. simpler (awesome)
5. external instrument (see 3)
that is essentially just 2 instruments, none of which is a usable synth (you can shoehorn simpler into one if you really want)
the effects cover the basics, but are lacking when it comes to say reverbs, character delays, mastering, EQs and more experimental stuff (e.g. Max4Live)

if you compare that to what comes with reason 10 you feel somewhat cheated...

[paradisebunny]

I would say the future of Reason is probably more uncertain than the rest of them. Look into the history of it and you'll understand why. (Read some threads on the major updates). Personally I bailed and switched to Logic a few years ago.

interesting, could you point me towards those threads? i can't seem to find them.

[paradisebunny]

Reason
pro: really fun (I seem to make my best music here)

Bitwig
pro: fun too (equally nice music to Reason)

These are the two most important points. Now all you need to do is decide which of these two DAWs have the least cons for you.

yeah, I feel the same way about it. What I don't know yet though is, how these DAWs behave when the track count goes up (only have the 8 track versions). i would imagine Reason could get really messy with a cramped rack and constant window switching.

[antic604]

Well, if Bitwig & Reason seem to be the most appealing and fun to you but you want Linux support and live performance option (using Push1/2, Launchpads or Maschine JAM, in particular) then Bitwig would be the obvious choice!

Regarding their future - IMO - both are a bit uncertain, but I have more faith in Bitwig. It's a small company (around 10 persons) but with a very clear vision: innovative, forward-looking DAW focusing on electronic music, sound designers & modular hardware fans. Their pricing model might seem problematic, but you don't really need to renew your "12 moths upgrade plan" every year - just wait until cumulative features added since your previous plan has run out justify the price and upgrade then. Reason on the other hand seems to be really keen on expanding into mobile space, while their plans for the main software are a bit unclear. It can also be a money pit, if you delve into its - wonderful! - world of proprietary rack extensions.

Comparing them is highly subjective, but here goes:
- GUI - both look great: clean, colourful, inviting; but Bitwig has full support for high-DPI and 4K screens, whereas Reason lacks in this department so you either want 1080p monitor or a big 4K screen
- workflow - Bitwig seems more fluid, faster and more nimble, whereas Reason seems stiff and rigid; this is mostly because of its sequencer (which is a really weird mixture of some awesome features and some missing obvious ones); patching devices is on the other hand much more pleasant in Reason (especially if you ever used hardware), although it can be a real chore once the project gets bigger or more complex; the SSL Mixer beats - functionally and in how it looks - any other mixer hands down,
- instruments & effects - I'd say Reason has an edge in native instruments department although not so much for effects; where Bitwig pulls ahead is VST world with much better performance, 32/64-bit VST2.4 and VST3 support, convenient plugin freeze workflow, sandboxing, etc.
- controller integration - for keyboard style controllers they're pretty much on par, but clip launching devices (Push1/2, Launchpads, Maschine JAM) are definitely better integrated with Bitwig, because it has the clip launcher

I really like both and wouldn't like to have to choose only one

[Zexila]

Bitwig definitely, it's the most interesting DAW on the market right now IMO which get's better and better update after update, it's young, but have bright future, sincerely, if I had to choose one DAW, I would pick it.

[Tj Shredder]

As your own preference is between two (fun and inspiration is the most important feature), and you seem to like Bitwig, go for it. It is future proof, I know enough users who are all enthusiastic. The team is extremely efficient and there are less people to feed as with Ableton and still their development pace is higher...
The long term cost is less of a problem, because older versions don’t stop functioning if you can’t afford to extend your license just wait and work with what you know...
Unfortunately I don’t know Reason, it never interested me...

[pekbro]

con: no instruments and rudimentary effects (standard version)

if you compare that to what comes with reason 10 you feel somewhat cheated...

You would probably feel cheated if you didn't really know very much about effects.

[paradisebunny]

Well, if Bitwig & Reason seem to be the most appealing and fun to you but you want Linux support and live performance option (using Push1/2, Launchpads or Maschine JAM, in particular) then Bitwig would be the obvious choice!

Regarding their future - IMO - both are a bit uncertain, but I have more faith in Bitwig. It's a small company (around 10 persons) but with a very clear vision: innovative, forward-looking DAW focusing on electronic music, sound designers & modular hardware fans. Their pricing model might seem problematic, but you don't really need to renew your "12 moths upgrade plan" every year - just wait until cumulative features added since your previous plan has run out justify the price and upgrade then. Reason on the other hand seems to be really keen on expanding into mobile space, while their plans for the main software are a bit unclear. It can also be a money pit, if you delve into its - wonderful! - world of proprietary rack extensions.

Comparing them is highly subjective, but here goes:
- GUI - both look great: clean, colourful, inviting; but Bitwig has full support for high-DPI and 4K screens, whereas Reason lacks in this department so you either want 1080p monitor or a big 4K screen
- workflow - Bitwig seems more fluid, faster and more nimble, whereas Reason seems stiff and rigid; this is mostly because of its sequencer (which is a really weird mixture of some awesome features and some missing obvious ones); patching devices is on the other hand much more pleasant in Reason (especially if you ever used hardware), although it can be a real chore once the project gets bigger or more complex; the SSL Mixer beats - functionally and in how it looks - any other mixer hands down,
- instruments & effects - I'd say Reason has an edge in native instruments department although not so much for effects; where Bitwig pulls ahead is VST world with much better performance, 32/64-bit VST2.4 and VST3 support, convenient plugin freeze workflow, sandboxing, etc.
- controller integration - for keyboard style controllers they're pretty much on par, but clip launching devices (Push1/2, Launchpads, Maschine JAM) are definitely better integrated with Bitwig, because it has the clip launcher

I really like both and wouldn't like to have to choose only one

thanks!! this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for! really helpful!! I am kinda leanig towards bitwig now, but I do love that Reason Mixer too... and all those coloful rack extensions..... arhghg it is hard.

[paradisebunny]

con: no instruments and rudimentary effects (standard version)

if you compare that to what comes with reason 10 you feel somewhat cheated...

You would probably feel cheated if you didn't really know very much about effects.

to be honest, the effects are fine, I just find Reason's more inspiring. For me it is mostly about the instruments.

[antic604]

You would probably feel cheated if you didn't really know very much about effects.

He's talking about whole package though: native instruments & effects of Reason 10 vs. Live 10 Standard and in this case Reason wins hands down. It's different for Suite, but Standard is just a very small taste of Live's full potential.