Musical shortcuts - How far do you go without guilty conscience?

[jancivil]

The patient by not being able to have consensual interactions with others limited his life. The OP seemed to be limiting his expression by having adverse feelings about using arps or whatever. I say use these tools without guilt.

Is he still able to have consensual relations with his arpeggiator, though?

Now I am not talking about referencing the outside world

I saw the patient as somebody who only referenced themselves.

So: only himself versus WHAT, as opposed to "the outside {world}"?

I am talking about humans interacting in their medium. You and your mate took acid. Say you look at the wall or the ceiling prior to the onset of the trip, then during the trip and then after the trip. Were there any differences in your perception of the wall/ceiling before during and after? Which "wall" is the true "wall"?

It's the same wall, rationally or objectively speaking. I took my Honors Music Theory final blazing on acid. I had 4 points taken off for covered (aka "Mozart") fifths in a German sixth resolution. I think it was a problem to ensure no one got 100. It was a very challenging coursework.

I coped rather well under the influence. <I interacted well in my medium.> However the first time I took it there were problems. Is this a philosophy type of question? I'm not solipsistic, I'm just not happy to do the same thing millions of other people do just because it's considered good to be just like the others.

I'm able to lose the plot easily enough with no chemical help, apparently.

[stonestreet]

I heard a story that it was the authorities that stuffed Roky over, shaved his hair off and made him wear combats. I also heard the drummeer in an intewrview describing how they busted him out and went on the run. Once again foggy details from the depths of time.

good because roky eickson was in the 13th floor elevators, although given the amount of lsd he went through i could see "psychosis" as a possibility

[Distorted Horizon]

My question is: Where is your own limit regarding such things as loops, auto arrangements, presequenced synth presets and so forth? Have you got any advice for my conscience to don’t give a living F about it or maybe the opposite, to feel really ashamed if I get help from machines to fulfil my quest and that I rather should stand up and fight to break my structures “manually”?

Pull me either way because right now I am just one big pile of ambivalence

IX

In most of my songs, I've "stolen" something from somewhere. It's either copied arrangement, preset, sampled loop, trick... Always something and I don't give a f**k since the end result is something more or less unique.

[stonestreet]

Arp

Like I said I am only pointing my finger at the moon. I can not give it to you. I doubt for a minute that there is a one to one mapping from the non-english-talking man and IncarnateX and it was not meant to be.

Now about getting consensual with his arp, you should hear the hardware guys complaining about their arps, they might split out tight sixteenths but they are not in line with the rest of the piece. They get most upset. I do not follow these things closely but I think Dave Smith Instruments get a mention. To me it says that these people are blaming their instrument rather than hearing it tell them that they could do with improving their timing.

Outside world

I do not think that there is a physical world independant from what I do. To me nothing exists independantly of an observer. Some of physics, evolutionary biology, cognitive and developmental psyhcology, artificial intelligence etc support this view.

I changed my name to Asif to remind me that I am acting as if there is something is really out there. Some of the physics guys if they look at the wall, look away and then look back are unable to prove that it is the same wall that they were looking at before. This bloke called Bell come up with FAPP, for all practical purposes. Similarly the physics guys if they see two systems, they can not prove whether these systems are separate from each other.

Some of the biology guys say that the nervous system is informationally closed that there are no inputs or outputs. The outside does not get in. All there is is configurations of neuronal activity.

Same wall

You appear to have different experiences to me. So to you the wall looked the same, sounded the same, felt the same, was at the same frequency etc? To me I have thought for a long time that we are just a bunch of habits living in a sea of chemicals each contingent to the other. If I drank a strong cup of chamamile tea I would exhibit different habits with respect to the wall than if I drank a glass of water.

As you may see having experiences is no problem it is when I make explanations when the trouble begins!

A little skit, thick velvet curtains part to reveal a chap having a cigaret in the coffee lounge. A woman comes up to him and says "Excuse me sir, there is a No Smoking sign over there." The man replied "How do you know that?" She says "I can see it!"

He looks at the woman and goes "Hmm" and with that threw the butt onto the shag carpet and stamped on it with his foot.

She angrilly says "You've just stubbed that out on the carpet with your foot"
Man "How do you know?

Woman "Because I just saw...Well a gentleman would use his toe."

With that the lights dim and the curtains close.

The patient by not being able to have consensual interactions with others limited his life. The OP seemed to be limiting his expression by having adverse feelings about using arps or whatever. I say use these tools without guilt.

Is he still able to have consensual relations with his arpeggiator, though?

Now I am not talking about referencing the outside world

I saw the patient as somebody who only referenced themselves.

So: only himself versus WHAT, as opposed to "the outside {world}"?

I am talking about humans interacting in their medium. You and your mate took acid. Say you look at the wall or the ceiling prior to the onset of the trip, then during the trip and then after the trip. Were there any differences in your perception of the wall/ceiling before during and after? Which "wall" is the true "wall"?

It's the same wall, rationally or objectively speaking. I took my Honors Music Theory final blazing on acid. I had 4 points taken off for covered (aka "Mozart") fifths in a German sixth resolution. I think it was a problem to ensure no one got 100. It was a very challenging coursework.

I coped rather well under the influence. <I interacted well in my medium.> However the first time I took it there were problems. Is this a philosophy type of question? I'm not solipsistic, I'm just not happy to do the same thing millions of other people do just because it's considered good to be just like the others.

I'm able to lose the plot easily enough with no chemical help, apparently.

[vurt]

there is no wall...

[donkey tugger]

there is no wall...

Of course there is

[vurt]

ha!

[BMoore]

...

[jancivil]

You appear to have different experiences to me. So to you the wall looked the same, sounded the same, felt the same, was at the same frequency etc? To me I have thought for a long time that we are just a bunch of habits living in a sea of chemicals each contingent to the other. If I drank a strong cup of chamamile tea I would exhibit different habits with respect to the wall than if I drank a glass of water.

I took a LOT of LSD over the years. I started when I was 14 and the last time I took any psychedelic was 1988. I was 32. I have had the walls breath and all that, but the only time that bothered me was the first time, and back then it was clean and strong acid. I actually told my mother I had done it. So to me the outside world may appear different but I'm not going to trip on that, I'm not focused or worried.

And my mother paid a lot of attention to me anyway. So even as the first Experience was terrifying (I thought my mind would burn out as it was doing too much too rapidly) I wanted to explore with it. It was easy to get ahold of.
So I learned to 'pull straight' and cope; maintain coherence, exert a kind of self-control. I prepared for 'jury' at conservatory tripping frequently. I not only heard much better, just in the plain physical sense but it helped me envision the form of the composition before me and work in a very concentrated focused way. I think it may have had an effect on my mind in this way, the sort of other side of the coin of the attention deficit thing, hyper focus.

The LSD I was using there in the early 1970s was usually not adulterated with shit that would make you speedy or sick. I would close my eyes and go places. I saw the real me in certain ways, glimpses... but it was about going out there. You know the sequence in 2001 A Space Odyssey known as Jupiter and Beyond? Like that. It really was, forget my surroundings, inner space like infinitudes. And I learned to guide the trip to some extent; intention. People and other externals can bum trip you. I also learned to project my thought in jam sessions, I'm sure people who had taken nothing got pretty high in these sort of sensory contact situations. I felt like their limbs were extensions of my thought just as mine were.

Maybe I'm crazy.

[IncarnateX]

The part of my post about the non-english-talking man is something that actually happened. I can not remember the particular details as I read it some 20 to 25 years ago. I recounted it because it seemed to me to have a parallel with the OP.

The discussion is hereby declared open to anyone who wants to discuss but I will just remind you that I found my peace on page three, so my concerns are over. If I am a non-english talking man at present, it is in the literal sense that my english sucks.

[Bombadil]

Ah, acid... left me with one functional brain cell, but it's a good'un!

[stonestreet]

I found the information I had refered too. The case was called "word salad" Erickson and Rossi, 1980, Vol IV. The name of the man was George O'Donnovan. He was a mental patient for 5 years before Erickson met him.

Have fun.

The part of my post about the non-english-talking man is something that actually happened. I can not remember the particular details as I read it some 20 to 25 years ago. I recounted it because it seemed to me to have a parallel with the OP.

The discussion is hereby declared open to anyone who wants to discuss but I will just remind you that I found my peace on page three, so my concerns are over. If I am a non-english talking man at present, it is in the literal sense that my english sucks.

[stonestreet]

I have been more fond of mushrooms and salvia (though not at the same time!) than acid. Funnily enough just this last week I let my salvia plant go. Had it for 11 years. Life changes and new responsibilites were deciding factors. Modern kids in my locality are not really interested in it.

Talking about brain cell damage I have found the modern chemical compounds to be the most bizare. About 4 years ago I came home from work one day and had a spice bucket hit. It turned me into an alzheimers patient. Most stuff I have taken has been expansive, that spice definately took something away. I was imobilized and I could not remember my partner of 16 years. I knew that I knew her but that was it. And our dog that we had for 3 months I did not know at all. Not the sort of thing I want to have happen too often.

Ah, acid... left me with one functional brain cell, but it's a good'un!

[vurt]

salvia is mental
i melted in to a table and climbed a ziggurat in the jungle, it all took a lifetime in 15 seconds!!! awesome!

mushrooms, my most memorable was fly agaric, that was like opening doorways/lifting a veil. seeing unseen entities interacting with our world, never got that from psilocybin, that was always more just everything becoming part of the trip. very different experiences.

im still in search of ayuhuasca in the uk, proving difficult. but nothing is impossible!
the dmt clockwork elves taught me that!

[IncarnateX]

Psilocybin once. Big laugh; Swirling and waving streets and houses, street lamps bowing as if saying “hi there” to me in a very friendly manner. Perception of people’s speech completely screwed as far as pitch and tempo go. First they sounded like sloooow deeep voices. Then tempo and pitch accelerated up to chipmunk effect and then down again, this went on in circles. My thougths were no longer thought by me alone, but several thinkers simultanously who on their hand were tapping on a central source consisting of all possible thoughts in the world in one big messy noise. Then somebody played melodies far back in my head or something.

Funny, but not something for me really. Too wierd perception wise. I stick to my bff Mari H. Partly as self-medication. She is harmless.