What one bit of Music Theory was really helpful that caused your songwriting to improve ?

[woggle]

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

You have to know things to forget them.

That's it in a nutshell!

Really?

Once these skills are assimilated they are not forgotten, even if they no longer exist as overt practices.

I suppose 'to forget them' does come across as a bit extreme! :0)

I won't speak for Jan, but what I mean by it is pretty much what you said really: "they no longer exist as overt practices"...you just 'forget' about them in the sense that they are subconsciously part of your approach to composing...

What I was alluding to was the context in which this often arises in threads such as this i.e that some with deep theoretical understanding will try to distance themselves from the notion of that training being fundamental to their work, so as to appear unconstrained by the given rules of engagement.

I don't think one can 'forget', to any significant effect, that kind of learning. Even if you get all Bruce "Don't think...Feel" Lee about it, you are still subconsciously operating from a much wider palette of colours/patterns/choices, and options are worth studying for.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

'forget them', figure of speech
Miles saying that to McLaughlin already says it. McLaughlin literally returning himself to the point before he learned to play, on command? alrighty then

Oh! You mean he didn't mean it literally? Say it ain't so

[jancivil]

Really?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Really?

You seem to be confused

[jancivil]

Really?

You seem to be confused

Let's recap then, sparky.

Miles to JM: Play the guitar like you don't know how to play the guitar

Then

You have to know things to forget them.

Then

That's it in a nutshell!

And

Really?

and then let's thank Cap'n Obvious for this:

Once these skills are assimilated they are not forgotten, even if they no longer exist as overt practices.

Which takes the figurative bit in the exchange - in two iterations now - as though it's literally saying forget how to play the guitar. Which *point* by this time in the thread is pretty old news.

[machinesworking]

Accidentals. I work in reverse a lot, come up with a melody and break etc. then start thinking about what scale it's in. Realizing that not every time am I writing in some arcane key, the a chorus or whatever other part of a song could be in the more common scale, and that might add something.

Oh and don't sequence a song with the lead note at 1-1-0, especially if it's an eighth note and expect your drummer to be able to figure it out. Lost one that way!

[jtyh1g11]

Use inversions of chords...don't stick with the root, 3rd and 5th, try sticking the 3rd at the bottom for a different colour of the same chord. In terms of harmony, there's a great video on Youtube called Modal Interchange, by Music with Myles. It's along the same lines as using parallel minor chords but stretching it further!

[Stamped Records]

This is very hard to say but I will actually try and recollect the various leaps in my understanding in chronological order.


Chords, that was a big realisation one time.

Inversions, that gave me unlimited creativity from a certain perspective.

Intervals, I saw the patterns in the scales as guides to find my scale while playing by ear. That meant I could get closer to what I genuinely wanted while using theory as a backup rather than the primer.

The circle of 5ths. I can't explain it within the scope of this post, and maybe not even in person, but, sufficed to say, it is the expansion point. For someone who's not an instrumenalist, a keyboard has been something of an enigma for a very long time. The circle of 5ths gave me a chance to hear the common colours.

The 1st and 3rd notes are all that are needed for us to percieve the full chord. The 5th does add to the chord but it's not disasterous to leave it out and double the 1. Actually, I find it cleaner/sharper/purer this way. Also, this gives us the chance to have a 7th chord in 3 part harmony.

IV, V, I. I feel I've recently discoverd the true value and power of IV, V, I. All the chords I've sought but could never find - some variety of IV, V, I.

That's all for now.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Really?

You seem to be confused

Let's recap then, sparky.

Miles to JM: Play the guitar like you don't know how to play the guitar

Then

You have to know things to forget them.

Then

That's it in a nutshell!

And

Really?

and then let's thank Cap'n Obvious for this:

Once these skills are assimilated they are not forgotten, even if they no longer exist as overt practices.

Which takes the figurative bit in the exchange - in two iterations now - as though it's literally saying forget how to play the guitar. Which *point* by this time in the thread is pretty old news.

Haha! It appears I am arguing at odds with myself

Will probably elaborate at some point, to try and get my thoughts out a little more clearly.

[Hooj]

The thing I wrestled with & hated the most.... Interval (ear) training!!!

[BURN-ADDiCT]

The best moment for me was when I realized that chord progressions can't be copyrighted.

you just gave me a light bulb moment...

But really though, I think learning triads and knowing the dominant chord gave my music production what I needed. The rest of music theory I've learnt seems to be overkill for the EDM I produce.

[branshen]

Most definitely the progression ii-V-i, as used in Jazz!

[funky lime]

A breakthrough for me was, don't afraid to be wrong about music theory on the internet. Inevitably, someone will come along and mock you and tear you down until you just want to scream or cry. And then you can step back and think, "huh, I guess I have more to learn."

It's like school, but free.

[IncarnateX]

Most definitely the progression ii-V-i, as used in Jazz!

Yes, that is the standard “front door” in Jazz where we still have a V-I, however, wouldn’t you benefit from thr backdoor progression iv7-bVII7-I too, which may give it a little more “jazzy” flavour?