VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
Trancit
KVRAF
1702 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Is there any Multiband plugin, that offers like Live´s Multiband Dynamics compression and expansion at the same time???

Trancit
KVRAF
1702 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:26 pm

What about MDynamicsMB... it offers 2 processes per band and expansion is realized with a ratio <1.00:1, correct???

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KVRist
64 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:30 pm

LOL seriously? Do you mean one besides OTT? A more comprehensive one is TDR Nova.

Trancit
KVRAF
1702 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:31 pm

double post...
Last edited by Trancit on Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Trancit
KVRAF
1702 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm

OTT is just a single preset with very limited parameters...
Nova doesn´t have compression and expansion at the same time on the same band, does it???

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The Noodlist
KVRist
240 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK

???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:49 pm

Delete.
Last edited by The Noodlist on Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hardware emulation list. I don't really need anymore effects, I need to learn how to use those I already have.

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bmanic
KVRAF
8026 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:39 pm

Trancit wrote:OTT is just a single preset with very limited parameters...
Nova doesn´t have compression and expansion at the same time on the same band, does it???
Umm.. how exactly would this work and what is the purpose? Re-shaping the dynamics? If so, then you can run multiple plugins in series with the same crossover frequencies selected, provided that you have a plugin that can do both.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

pottering
KVRian
632 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:35 pm

All plugins I've seen (besides xfer OTT for obvious reasons) require 2 instances (one for "bottom" threshold, one for "above" threshold).

Here is a explanation of Live's Multiband Dynamics:

https://studioslave.com/abletons-multib ... explained/

It can do in each band: Downward Expansion or Upward Compression in the "bottom" threshold, and Downward Compression or Upward Expansion in the "above" threshold.

I guess the main advantage over just using 2 instances of another multiband compression plugin that can do all those 4 types of compression/expansion is how quick and easy it is to use, you can set the threshold and ratios for both the "top" and "bottom" of the 3 bands at the same time very easily, just dragging left/right and up/down with modifier keys (plus other small things that save time over tweaking 2 instances of a plugin, like a single wet/dry knob to tweak, mute/solo buttons, etc.).

https://sonicbloom.net/en/ableton-live- ... -tutorial/

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KVRist
64 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:55 pm

TDR Nova's Gentleman Edition has multiband and wideband compression/expansion. The free version doesn't have expansion.

https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova-ge/

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strovoknights
KVRist
274 posts since 22 Aug, 2014

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:30 pm

McDSP ML4000 has 4band with Expand and Compression at same time.
Band1 OrangeBar is showing Expand and Compression at same time.
ML4000_Possible_EXP_and_COMP_Sametime.JPG
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pottering
KVRian
632 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:18 pm

Not sure, but seems ML4000 doesn't have Upward Compression, and can't have Downward Expansion and Upward Expansion set at the same time in the same band?

Multiband Dynamics can have Downward Expansion and Upward Expansion at the same time in the same band, and also Upward Compression and Downward Compression at the same time in the same band, plus infinite positive ratios on both Upward and Downward Compression.

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/live- ... d-dynamics

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strovoknights
KVRist
274 posts since 22 Aug, 2014

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:00 pm

pottering wrote:Not sure, but seems ML4000 doesn't have Upward Compression, and can't have Downward Expansion and Upward Expansion set at the same time in the same band?

Multiband Dynamics can have Downward Expansion and Upward Expansion at the same time in the same band, and also Upward Compression and Downward Compression at the same time in the same band, plus infinite positive ratios on both Upward and Downward Compression.

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/live- ... d-dynamics
Oh,I could understand the difference in function.
Very interesting function. ML4000 can't these type gain control at the same time.
and I read a Ableton Live Manual for Japanese after a long time :dog:
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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
2816 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:18 pm

Ozone Dynamics, available as separate plugin in Advance package. Compressor can also work in expander mode, while limiter takes it's role.

BTW, Ableton dynamics is crap, as frequency split is not transparent and causes phasing.
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pottering
KVRian
632 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:32 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:Ozone Dynamics, available as separate plugin in Advance package. Compressor can also work in expander mode, while limiter takes it's role.

BTW, Ableton dynamics is crap, as frequency split is not transparent and causes phasing.
Seems to me the ML4000 gets closer than Ozone Dynamics, as its bands can be set to Expander and Compressor and even Limiter at the same time, each with separate threshold, ratio, etc. settings.

Ableton Live Multiband Dynamics is not "crap", it just uses minimum phase to split the bands, like 99% of multiband plugins (and EQs, filters, etc.).

https://www.fabfilter.com/help/pro-mb/u ... essingmode
Minimum Phase

Minimum Phase mode uses a traditional way of splitting the signal into bands using filters. This does not introduce extra latency, but it will introduce static phase changes at the crossover frequencies instead. Especially when using higher slopes, these phase effects will become very apparent and often unpleasant, which makes this method virtually unusable for mastering purposes.
https://dspguru.com/dsp/faqs/fir/properties/
2.1.4 What is the alternative to linear phase?
Non-linear phase, of course. Actually, the most popular alternative is “minimum phase”. Minimum-phase filters (which might better be called “minimum delay” filters) have less delay than linear-phase filters with the same amplitude response, at the cost of a non-linear phase characteristic, a.k.a. “phase distortion”.
Linear phase has problems of its own, has pre-ringing artifacts, uses more CPU and adds HUGE latency (for example, IK T-Racks CS Lin Phase adds 18 THOUSAND+ samples of latency, 420+ ms of latency).

People can test other multiband plugins that are not linear phase (linear phase is always heavily marketed, most plugins are minimum phase), like Melda's plugins with the crossovers set to "Analog", or FabFilter plugins in minimum phase mode, they will see those plugins have the same transparency and phase issues as Multiband Dynamics has.

Trancit
KVRAF
1702 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: VST Alternative to Live´s Multiband Dynamics???

Post Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:19 am

All of this +1 and this is especially for electronic music completely meaningless as you alter the sound with the processes much much more than the worst crossovers could ever do...

So I think it´s a very clever made plugin as it seems to do things nothing else can really do in a single instance...
It´s a pity that Steve Duda does only a restricted freeware for that one preset without having the possibilty to change the crossover points... I would love to have some kind of clone

But thx so far for all responses here :tu:

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