My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

[keyman_sam]

There are many helpful suggestions in this thread. I'll give them a try. The thing is, I HAVE had my PC work perfectly fine on a couple projects and it felt great. It just seems like hit and miss. God forbid I update a piece of software, then all hell breaks lose.

The only major upgrade I've done over the last year is Cubase 9.5, that too only for render in place or I'd have stuck with 7.5 which worked well for me.

The common blame for crashes is 'it's the plugins'. Sure, that's why I use only the top quality trusted-name software. NI, Waves, Eventide, Valhalla, VEP, that's it for the most part. It seems too easy to let the genie out of the bottle, and it shouldn't be.

[THE INTRANCER]

There are many helpful suggestions in this thread. I'll give them a try. The thing is, I HAVE had my PC work perfectly fine on a couple projects and it felt great. It just seems like hit and miss. God forbid I update a piece of software, then all hell breaks lose.

The only major upgrade I've done over the last year is Cubase 9.5, that too only for render in place or I'd have stuck with 7.5 which worked well for me.

The common blame for crashes is 'it's the plugins'. Sure, that's why I use only the top quality trusted-name software. NI, Waves, Eventide, Valhalla, VEP, that's it for the most part. It seems too easy to let the genie out of the bottle, and it shouldn't be.

The reality is that you can't rely on any software from any company to work 100%, regardless of who they are. There are just too many variables from the communication of physical hardware, to human error in actual coding. The more variables added, the greater the potential of things not working as they should.

[funky lime]

There are a loooong list of "shouldn'ts" that seem to have grown over the years. It seems I'm not alone. First there were plugins. Then plugins needed updates. Then they needed installers, and the installers needed updates. Is there any turnkey solution that works out the box, with all my plugins and sample libraries and recording to my heart's content?

I have a couple hardware workstations and they just work. They are embedded systems that run an OS (software, yes). But because it is a closed system, there are limitations that are set and they work flawlessly within those constraints. I'd be fine with constraints. I'm just fed up with troubleshooting, debugging, and fixing issues especially when creativity strikes me.

This is a potential indicator, in my opinion, that perhaps your problem is workflow-related. More specifically, it might have to do with your reliance on too many pieces of kit.

It's tempting, in this day and age, to have access to everything at all times, especially when we've already paid for it (sometimes we keep stuff around just to justify the money we've spent). And with so much quality kit available to us, it's easy to try to assemble a collection of all the "best" plugins. But I think the best tool merely means the one that gets out of the way and lets you translate ideas into results. Of course, this is going to be different for everybody.

I don't want to sound preachy, or get too philosophical. But "Top quality trusted-name software" is pretty subjective, and varies from one user to another. For example, some of NI's effects processors in Komplete seem to have issues in terms of graphics on my computer. Rather than bang my head against the desk trying to get them to work, I just decided to live without them. Yeah, yeah, I paid for a thing, so it should work! But the truth is, the big name brand let me down, so I just didn't bother. Reaper's stock EQ has been much more reliable, and gets me satisfying results quickly (and has never, ever crashed or even glitched out on me).

I guess my point is, if a program or plugin is causing me headaches, I tend to just ditch it and get on with a slimmer, more reliable alternative. Waves is an old name, but hasn't always been known for being the most stable or reliable on some systems. I mean, they basically run their plugins in a sandbox which is bridged to your DAW; that layer of separation alone is enough to introduce all kinds of potential problems. Then add all the pretty 3d moving images, and the Waves Central call-home stuff, and it's like you're running a bunch of extra stuff just to access an EQ. Give me something lean and mean like Airwindows instead, any day; that guy makes writes some incredibly efficient code that seems to waste nary a single CPU cycle.

The problem might be with your expectations as well (the whole "it's 2018, it should just work!" mentality). You're introducing a lot of moving parts that weren't necessarily designed to fit together 100% seamlessly, especially when you start mixing different copy protection schemes together, etc. The reality is, you can build a flawless system and use the most high end software, and stuff will still find a way to not work properly. You have to suss out what plays nicely with everything else and what doesn't, and deal with it accordingly. I know that's far from ideal from a consumer standpoint, but that's the way life is; your system is going to be completely unique from everyone else's, even if it's only in some small way, and sometimes that tiny difference is enough to cause you certain headaches that maybe nobody else has to deal with.

I'd wager that if you do a reformat and fresh OS install and only use stock plugins, your experience will be much more responsive and less frustrating. From there, you can install stuff as needed, rather than reinstalling everything you own just because you happen to own it. Then you're getting more into that territory of the hard limits of a workstation, and can just focus on making music instead.

(an occasional fresh OS install can have other benefits too, for your system and for your soul)

TL;DR: Nothing's perfect. Deal with it

[jancivil]

I just bought the new MacBook Pro. It's a beautiful thing. I'ver never had a computer work this well for DAW work.
Six-core (12 logical cores to distribute), 32 GB RAM is the highest end. It's enough for me. SSD obviously.

<It just works> is not "bollocks" for me.

Sometimes I feel like I have to do 'sudo purge' in Terminal to force purging this holding onto RAM, out of habit. It's more or less negligible now (which means VSL has done something to VE Pro. probably).
Other than that, I don't have to do anything but work. No troubles to shoot.

The new Touch Bar is a time saver; in addition to knowing what's in the OS, it is configured to work with DaVinci Resolve. Apple has essentially partnered with Black Magic on hardware for the power user there. That's just coolness factor here, my usage is sehr basic. It does NOTHING with Nuendo, however. It responds to an extremely light touch, so I'm using it in preference to ENTER, or click. The keyboard is lighter touch as well.


The graphics are quite more crisp than before. Yes, it was 4 grand.

I'm forced to use High Sierra which I won't have chosen to do maybe in my lifetime. Migration from Time Machine, I'm not sure this was the best plan. Spitfire LABS no longer works here, there's a slight hitch. Nothing essential.

[THE INTRANCER]

I just bought the new MacBook Pro. It's a beautiful thing. I'ver never had a computer work this well for DAW work.
Six-core (12 logical cores to distribute), 32 GB RAM is the highest end. It's enough for me. SSD obviously.

The graphics are quite more crisp than before. Yes, it was 4 grand.

I'm forced to use High Sierra which I won't have chosen to do maybe in my lifetime. Migration from Time Machine, I'm not sure this was the best plan. Spitfire LABS no longer works here, there's a slight hitch. Nothing essential.

£4000, for an Apple laptop!!!!... that's crazy, you can build a more powerful PC with an 8 Core AMD Ryzen 7 2700, Zen+, 8-core - 16 thread desktop solution and additional screen for almost quarter of that with 32 Gigs of ram, 250 GIG SSD, mid range graphics card, case, PSU, operating system and screen for about £1400... or less.

[Zexila]

£4000, for an Apple laptop!!!!... that's crazy, you can build a more powerful PC

Maybe he needs an laptop, can you suggest more powerful laptop?

[Mushy Mushy]

£4000, for an Apple laptop!!!!... that's crazy, you can build a more powerful PC

Maybe he needs an laptop, can you suggest more powerful laptop?

She

And to the intrancer it’s $ not £

[Zexila]

Just went to SCAN and tried to configure one to that Macbook Pro, 2500 pounds/3200 dollars and still it doesn't have retina display, so yeah, that's about it.

[Zexila]

She

Ooopps

[fmr]

Just went to SCAN and tried to configure one to that Macbook Pro, 2500 pounds/3200 dollars and still it doesn't have retina display, so yeah, that's about it.

The review in Wired isn't exactly enthusiastic:

https://www.wired.com/review/apple-macbook-pro-2018/

"It used to be that when you bought a MacBook Pro, you got the best hardware around, along with the best operating system. Increasingly, these MacBooks feel like they beat up on the Mac faithful for favoring that ecosystem. It's an exercise in maddening compromises: with the 2018 Pro, you'll get the fastest-ever mobile Intel chips, but that silicon is saddled to a laptop with a keyboard that's just not great. You'll finally get the option to get 32 GB of RAM, but you'll have to carry a gaggle of dongles everywhere you go. You'll get a gorgeous display, but it's not true 4K."

And apart from the Intel i9 (which I think can be replaced, with advantages, for newer Intel i7, nevertheless) there are A LOT of negative points. For the price asked, you definitely should get more, and above all, better, IMO. But I think we get used to that coming from Apple. The only thing high in them, nowadays, is the price.

[THE INTRANCER]

Just went to SCAN and tried to configure one to that Macbook Pro, 2500 pounds/3200 dollars and still it doesn't have retina display, so yeah, that's about it.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/titan-ka ... l#t=b4c2d1
£1,214.04

Titan Katana Overclocked Gaming PC -
Case - Phanteks Eclipse P400S Glass Midi Tower Case - Noise Dampened Black/Red
CPU - AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 1700 3.70GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail
Motherboard- Asus Prime B350-Plus (Socket AM4) ATX Motherboard
Alphenfohn Brocken Eco CPU Cooler
Memory - Team Group Vulcan T-Force 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-19200C14 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit
Asus GeForce GTX 1050Ti Phoenix 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card
Samsung 960 EVO Polaris 250GB M.2 2280 PCI-e 3.0 x4 NVMe Solid State Drive
Seagate BarraCuda 1TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache HDD - *System Stock*
Power Supply - 650W 80+ Gold Rated PSU
Microsoft Windows 10 64-Bit DVD - OEM

Need a high res monitor ?

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/benq-el2 ... 2s-bq.html
EL2870U 28" 3840x2160 TN HDR FREESYNC Widescreen LED Monitor - Black
£289.99

Combined prices.. for that lot...
£1,505.83 inc VAT

Exchange rates: US Dollars 4000 to UK Pounds £3048..

So depending on what you want, you can spend half or less than half of that for a desktop system which is more powerful.

If you were to shop around (something I did through various retailers with my own I7 920 PC build in 2010), substitute any other hardware you might have like a case or operating system that you might already have a license for, you could reduce the price further.
____

If one is constantly gigging, doing big shows, event's then a £3000 laptop might be worth it for you...but otherwise I don't see the point if all it's going to do is sit on a table 80% of the time in a studio, having yourself look at a tiny screen.

I picked up a dualcore Intel 1.73 Gig WIFI enabled laptop with 2 gigs of ram for just £200 way back in 2008 and it sits here in front of me as a backup machine or helping me solve problems with my ISP. It was used for music production with Propellerheads Reason 4 as well as 3D graphics in Cinema 4D until my PC build. I took it for use in hotels and away from home whilst I was doing festival event work. So yeah I know how valuable they are, but there's no way I could justify paying twice that when there is better systems for far less. The laptop replaced my single core AMD 3500 2.3 Ghz desktop system which cost 4 times more... so I saved money... which is a bit of an irony...

[jancivil]

£4000, for an Apple laptop!!!!... that's crazy, you can build a more powerful PC

Maybe he needs an laptop, can you suggest more powerful laptop?

I cannot.

I just stated I had bought this one. Why would this proceed immediately to 'maybe he needs a laptop'? Weird.

"It used to be that when you bought a MacBook Pro..." blah blah blah. I have had 4 of them.


I used to have a Mac Pro. Early 2009. 8-core, 24 GB RAM (at that time I was advised (VSL's main tech) to do RAM in multiples of three because 'triple channel'. I wouldn't know better, myself). This is far superior to that. I also bought a 21.5" monitor. EDIT: 4k! I had to look it up. The 5 was like 50% more expensive.
It took some getting used to but now I'm picking up on the resolution. It's not flattering, I'll just say that.

but that silicon is saddled to a laptop with a keyboard that's just not great. You'll finally get the option to get 32 GB of RAM, but you'll have to carry a gaggle of dongles everywhere you go. You'll get a gorgeous display, but it's not true 4K.

THAT is the basis of your argument? LOL. Seriously. It's a gorgeous display but here's some words to care more about. I have 32 GB RAM, period. It's the fastest chip but the "silicon" is hindered by... I have no_idea what that sentence* is supposed to be dealing with but it doesn't resemble my experience.

*: "a gaggle of dongles"' is that like a 'murder of crows'?

WHO WRITES LIKE THAT.

[jancivil]

That kind of writing... atrocious. Who is persuaded by that kind of shit?

It reminds me of rock music 'critics', it's complete f**king bullshit.

[Coxy]

Hey look guys FML found a review that supported their sentiment on a product. Point now proven... we were all hoodwinked by apple from day 1... who knew!?? Thank god FML was able to dig an article up by a paid reviewer to tell the world the truth about this.



Before this thread derails deeper and deeper into the perpetual insecurities of some posters let's look at a simple analogy.

4 doors.
2.0 Litre petrol
Aircon
5 seats
Windscreen wipers
CD player
Electric windows

Vauxhall, Ford, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, DACIA, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, KIA.

Whilst they can all be found in that spec or configured from new to that spec it's ludicrous to think they all represent the same quality, ease of use, reliability, longevity, ease of upgradability, efficiency, brand ethos, statement.

Why should that be different for any other industry. Apple make slick products based on an OS that is inherently stable in which they appeal to people who don't mind spending more than than some would deem sensible on something because it resonates with them either functionally, practically or even just because it looks good to them.

Like NO-ONE else on this thread has made a purchase like this in their lives before? Honestly the arrogance of some of you is astounding, I guess you all drive round in a DACIA? Since anything else is OVERPRICED.

Why are you so insecure about people using/moving to Macs?

[chk071]

Well... as long as the Mac crew just enjoys what they got, it's all good. The problem arises, when they show their high nose, and do a lot of trash talk about other's stuff.

Not sure if we really need several pages to this thread though. In my opinion, the answer is quite simple: No, you can't say generally that the OS is responsible for the issues stated in the OP, and, no, it won't be automagically better with another OS, when you keep on doing what you are doing.

Whether or not the OP WANTS another OS or computer is another thing.