My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

[Groundhog #31684]

There's a potential class action lawsuit available to consumers who purchase overly-thin laptops with overly-hot processors in them, the combination of which results in thermal throttling when trying to use the processors under load at advertised speed. A new MacBook Pro i9 can handle a few seconds of full load before throttling.

A less powerful (and less expensive) processor in a more sensible housing would result in better overall performance under load. Overpayment for false marketing claims? I think so.

[Michael L]

This is a hilarious thread!
By the way OP, how old is your PC?
Do you think it's become a bit forgetful?

[Sascha Franck]

Switching to Apple will not address any of those issues.
Sleep or Hybernation on a DAW is something you want to avoid.

Gotta disagree here. Sleep mode on OSX is working almost perfectly fine. Sometimes it takes a bit to "re-wake-up" some things, but we're talking about a few seconds here.
I'm really not a fan of Apple or OSX or so (in fact, I hate Apple and am solely using a Mac because of Logic), but they've done a handful of things very well, sleep mode being one of them, which is particularly nice in case you're working with a laptop. I can keep it switched on for weeks, which includes keeping Logic loaded (while changing audio interfaces between my home and music refuge environment) and only hesitate doing so because the old hippie in me believes in saving some bits of power here and there.

[Sascha Franck]

(apparently about Apple computers) the build quality

A good joke is always making one laugh.

[jabe]

I tend to view the difference between PCs and Macs as being that Microsoft allows for backwards compatibility and Apple does not. I have friends who are artists and on acquiring a new Mac with a new OS suddenly find their beloved but aged peripherals useless. The tighter control that Apple exerts on third parties - hardware especially, but also software - keeps the prices from dropping due to competition, but also means there are far fewer combinations of bits and pieces making up any Mac computer, and the fewer these combinations, the less likely some combination with unexpected problems. This might be a slightly out-of-date assessment, but I haven't heard whisperings to the contrary,

Apple also imposes draconian restrictions on third party repairers. I've no need of third party repairers, but I've fixed assorted software and hardware problems for friends and acquaintances, but not as an actively professional third party repairer.

I've worked in IT - mostly as programmer (COBOL and related fun) - and I've always been happy to tinker with software and hardware, and so I am not exactly a typical user.

[Tronam]

There's a potential class action lawsuit available to consumers who purchase overly-thin laptops with overly-hot processors in them, the combination of which results in thermal throttling when trying to use the processors under load at advertised speed. A new MacBook Pro i9 can handle a few seconds of full load before throttling.

A less powerful (and less expensive) processor in a more sensible housing would result in better overall performance under load. Overpayment for false marketing claims? I think so.

I doubt a case like that would have much ground to stand on because the i9 MBP still maintains the base advertised clock speed of the processor. It’s the “Turbo Boost up to” speed that throttles depending on sustained load and I doubt any mobile vendor promises these values beyond short usage bursts, save for maybe those AlienWare-class behemoths.

The problem really lies with Intel, now years behind schedule with delay after delay and Cannon Lake (originally slated for 2016) now pushed back yet again until next year. They’re still incapable of successfully migrating to 10nm at scale (while competitors like TSMC are already at 7nm) resulting in hotter CPUs being sold with overly ambitious marketing.

[chk071]

The tighter control that Apple exerts on third parties - hardware especially, but also software - keeps the prices from dropping due to competition

I would say that the main reason for keeping the prices high is the demand... and, of course, the fact that noone expects a Apple device to be cheap, and they wouldn't do themselves favor to produce cheap stuff, and wreck their brand.

[Jim Roseberry]

Switching to Apple will not address any of those issues.
Sleep or Hybernation on a DAW is something you want to avoid.

Gotta disagree here. Sleep mode on OSX is working almost perfectly fine. Sometimes it takes a bit to "re-wake-up" some things, but we're talking about a few seconds here.
I'm really not a fan of Apple or OSX or so (in fact, I hate Apple and am solely using a Mac because of Logic), but they've done a handful of things very well, sleep mode being one of them, which is particularly nice in case you're working with a laptop. I can keep it switched on for weeks, which includes keeping Logic loaded (while changing audio interfaces between my home and music refuge environment) and only hesitate doing so because the old hippie in me believes in saving some bits of power here and there.

FWIW, Waiting for drives to spin-up (for me) would be unbearable.
I've got 10 drives in my machine.

An example of why performance throttling is not a good thing (for DAW purposes):
Lets say you're working on a song in your DAW software.
Beginning of the song is say a medium load.
When it gets to the bridge, the song breaks down to kick and bass (extremely low load).
Right after the bridge, there's the massive chorus out that has dense stacked background vocals/etc (everything but the kitchen-sink) with loads of processing.

If you allow performance throttling, the OS/hardware could decide to drop the CPU clock-speed during the bridge (and/or park CPU cores). This could cause glitches/dropouts when the dense chorus out hits immediately after.

On that chorus out, lets say you also use a dense arrangement of various disk-streaming string sample-libraries (for the first time in the song). The drives will have to spin-up when you get to the chorus out.

Power-management can/does cause some USB peripherals to disconnect.
Seen this many times with USB audio interfaces and MIDI controllers
In the above example, lets say the chorus out section also made use of a USB MIDI interface (sending MIDI data to hardware keyboard/s. With PM enabled, the OS may have decided to shut down "unused" USB ports (including the one connected to the MIDI interface).

Macs are slick looking machines...
And they do handle power-management more "cleanly".
But... it's still not an ideal situation for DAW purposes.

Apple has essentially abandoned their "power-user" market.
Their hardware lags far behind the curve... and there's zero internal expansion (drives or otherwise).
On the MacBooks, there's no expanding RAM (what you buy is what you've got).
We've got one of the latest MBPs (for supporting Mac clients using VE Pro Slaves).
It's a slick machine. Sleek, sharp, etc... and it runs well for what it is.
From a performance perspective, it's nowhere near the tower I use for my main studio DAW (6-cores locked at 5GHz). You simply can't put that kind of speed in a super tight enclosure (Mac or PC)... as it would burn up.

[Jim Roseberry]

When dealing with super tight enclosures, performance throttling is absolutely necessary to keep the CPU from burning up.

This isn't an Intel "problem"... but rather physics.
Cooler running CPUs help mitigate the issue... but heat will still be an issue in tight enclosures (even when Cannon Lake is available).

Some Alien-Ware and custom Clevo-shell based laptops can run desktop CPUs.
They are bulky... but they are significantly faster than the sleek/trim models that use "mobile" CPUs.
If you look inside one of these larger laptop shells, they have more advanced cooling than their smaller counterparts. That said, the cooling is nowhere near adequate to allow running the i7-8086k with all six cores locked at 5GHz. That's easily possible with a desktop configuration... where you can use substantial cooling (while keeping noise-level almost dead silent).

Sleek/slim machines have their place.
Highest-performance isn't their forte'.

[starise]

Good points Jim.

I say let the dude buy his Apple so annoying threads like this will go away and the rest of us can continue to make great music on our PC's

Please buy the MAC and tell us how wonderful your life is bowing to the Apple God. Your light wallet will make you step better.

Long discourses about the tools result in not using said tools resulting in zero production.

Some things never change.

PLEASE go buy the Mac. You know you want it. Some people should not touch a PC. I wonder how many get just as frustrated with the music construction process when things don't go as intended?
I mean, Logic will make your music for you right?

And one more minor rant- These guys all show up with old outdated software, hardware and OS. Duh..............

[perpetual3]

There's a potential class action lawsuit available to consumers who purchase overly-thin laptops with overly-hot processors in them, the combination of which results in thermal throttling when trying to use the processors under load at advertised speed. A new MacBook Pro i9 can handle a few seconds of full load before throttling.

A less powerful (and less expensive) processor in a more sensible housing would result in better overall performance under load. Overpayment for false marketing claims? I think so.

You are correct but the 2.6 i7 and 2.9 i9 average the same heat over long term processes and the i9 runs cooler over short term processes.

At the moment, there will be a significant tradeoff between thinness and performance until intel ups their game or another company develops a different and better alternative altogether.

[Zexila]

Good points Jim.

I say let the dude buy his Apple so annoying threads like this will go away and the rest of us can continue to make great music on our PC's

Please buy the MAC and tell us how wonderful your life is bowing to the Apple God. Your light wallet will make you step better.

Long discourses about the tools result in not using said tools resulting in zero production.

Some things never change.

PLEASE go buy the Mac. You know you want it. Some people should not touch a PC. I wonder how many get just as frustrated with the music construction process when things don't go as intended?
I mean, Logic will make your music for you right?

And one more minor rant- These guys all show up with old outdated software, hardware and OS. Duh..............

What an paradox, you sound like an proper religious fanatic.

[THE INTRANCER]

I use a Zalman CNPS10X Extreme CPU cooling monster, to keep my PC cool during hard workouts, it can be extremely quiet or very loud, you choose vie it's detachable remote control which is great. 5 of the 6 DIMM slots are accessible due to fan surround which would need some slight self modding, it hasn't been a big issue over the past 8 years due to ram size increases. Potentially I could increase this to 48 Gigs or 40 gigs un-modded with this CPU cooler if I wanted to..not bad for 2009 technology. I was in two minds in whether to go for one of the new self contained H50 water units from Corsair around that time or just stick to air. One of my friends who helped me build my Intel 17 920 machine was into high end water cooling PC's at the time, but now primarily uses air as there is almost zero maintenance and risks of leaks or corrosion. With this cooler I've had my system overclock to 3.8 but I peg that down to 3.56 Ghz as a happy medium from the stock 2.6 Ghz.

(This isn't my system just for reference)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=numkxrHwVbQ

[starise]

Yes but I'm right

[rod_zero]

I really don't understand how people have so many issues with windows, I have built my own for DAW duties 3 times and they always run like charm.

Windows has come a long way since XP for DAW use, and IMHO Apple has become worst because their target market has changed a lot. And the worst part of Apple these days is pricing, I had considered many times to get a Mac laptop but when I go to buy it the price has again gone up for no apparent reason.

My recommendation in either case is to get an RME interface, having the best drivers in the market helps a lot with so many potential problems in both OS.