My DAW PC hates me though I shower it with nothing but love..time to switch to a Mac?

[Zexila]

I really don't understand how people have so many issues with windows, I have built my own for DAW duties 3 times and they always run like charm.

Because of the mindset, they would rather save few bucks on everything and than troubleshoot problems endlessly, than pay more for out of the box working SCAN machine and make music, there's always exceptions of course and kudos to folks who know how to assemble great working machine and have free time to investigate into the matter... most working audio folks just don't have time or care about that, so they buy machine to work with, not play with it, here are mostly hobbyists, gamers and plugin hoarders, so yeah, look and behold lovely discussion we have.

[dellboy]

Because of the mindset, they would rather save few bucks on everything and than troubleshoot problems endlessly,

Huh ?

I have built many PC's completely from scratch,and nowadays they just work.

Long ago, in a far distant galaxy, PC's could be a pain to get to work. Long lost civilizations relied on such ancient artifacts as Microsoft M.E. Now THAT OS was a real pain to get up and running - sorting out irq's, and drivers, and such like. But now that we live in the modern age, and we have Windows 10 which is almost bullet proof, almost - apart from the dreaded auto update scourge.

Only a week ago I decided I needed some more USB ports. I already had 6 internal ones on the motherboard. A quick wiz around Ebay,and for less that 10 dollars delivered, I had a PCIe USB card with 4 more USB 3 ports. It took a few minutes to install,and now I have 10 USB ports. All plug and play with no drivers to install.

[Zexila]

Because of the mindset, they would rather save few bucks on everything and than troubleshoot problems endlessly,

Huh ?

I have built many PC's completely from scratch,and nowadays they just work.

Good for you, as I said:

there's always exceptions of course and kudos to folks who know how to assemble great working machine and have free time to investigate into the matter...

There plenty of folks I know who use computers for work and that work put's food on their table, they have no time and knowledge to involve themselves in someone else's job of assembling good working machine and would rather pay extra to have good thing going on and support if worst things happen, they have no time to hunt for opinions, drivers, optimisation guides and whatever, they need to work instead, barely know few outside of internet who are DIY or religious about their OS.

Good for you really, but there's real world out there and people use computers without any affection towards them, maybe that sounds strange to you and other folks who are so religiously involved into whole thing.

[cthonophonic]

Long discourses about the tools result in not using said tools resulting in zero production.

[chk071]

Long discourses about the tools result in not using said tools resulting in zero production.

Who says the time spent on pointless discussions would have been spent on something useful otherwise?

[dellboy]

they have no time to hunt for opinions, drivers, optimisation guides and whatever, they need to work instead, barely know few outside of internet who are DIY or religious about their OS.

You really need to get up to date.

I never hunt for drivers or optimize my PC's. If you are going to be silly and insult people with childish "religious" nonsense then please get your facts straight first. Windows machines of today do not remotely resemble those of 20 years ago. It would take me a couple of hours tops to build a machine and have Windows 10 installed and working. By doing it myself I can choose ALL the components. If anything breaks in the future (very rare) then a quick Google on Ebay and a couple of days later its all fixed. Windows machines of today are very reliable, not much different than a MAC really.

I totally agree with you that the majority of people just like to buy stuff off the shelf and have it working quickly. If they have the money, then splash out and get a top of the range MAC, why not ?

[BertKoor]

This is seriously one of the most civilized Mac vs PC threads in KVR history!

[Zexila]

I totally agree with you that the majority of people just like to buy stuff off the shelf and have it working quickly. If they have the money, then splash out and get a top of the range MAC, why not ?

That's all I'm saying, they get SCAN's PC, Apple's Mac or Joe's DIY, who ever did all the work for them, I applaud you for having time, patience and knowledge to pull it off, I don't, I wouldn't know half things Kaine from SCAN knows because that's what he's doing for a living, only way is if Kaine told me, plenty of folks who DIY know way less than Kaine, Kaine is working with companies to ensure great symbiosis of software and hardware, that's what someone from Apple does too, half of you DIY based on luck/common sense/other user experience, plenty of folks know way way less than you and plenty of them have issues they can't troubleshoot that easily, so best thing to do than is to have a guy or buy from best and receive support.

[Zexila]

This is seriously one of the most civilized Mac vs PC threads in KVR history!

That's sad, people get triggered so much, seriously don't know last time I had remote discussion with anyone on this topic, it's more like sharing experiences, both learn something or nothing, maybe that's how things go around colleagues in real world, on internet everyone is everything and there's no consequences or respect.

[dellboy]

That's all I'm saying, they get SCAN's PC, Apple's Mac or Joe's DIY, who ever did all the work for them, I applaud you for having time, patience and knowledge to pull it off, I don't, I wouldn't know half things Kaine from SCAN knows because that's what he's doing for a living, only way is if Kaine told me, plenty of folks who DIY know way less than Kaine, Kaine is working with companies to ensure great symbiosis of software and hardware, that's what someone from Apple does too, half of you DIY based on luck/common sense/other user experience, plenty of folks know way way less than you and plenty of them have issues they can't troubleshoot that easily, so best thing to do than is to have a guy or buy from best and receive support.

Its not rocket science to build a PC, its just a matter of a few screws and plugging in cables. A quick format of the new hard drive and Windows practically installs itself. Its pretty much like any knowledge, when you know, you know. I bought my wife an i-Pad and an i-phone, these devices are supposed to be really easy,but my wife is always asking me to fix this or that on it. Just this evening I had to fiddle with the i-Pad to get it working for her. The truth is that all knowledge has to be learnt, and she finds it easier to get me to do stuff than Google how to do it.

[Zexila]

Its not rocket science to build a PC, its just a matter of a few screws and plugging in cables.

That's what separates SCAN/Apple builds with DIY builds that have issues some developers or users can't even adress, we can argue whole day, but I read stuff Kaine is writting on here and that dude knows his stuff and anyone who got help from him can testify that, he does more than few screws and cables and if my life depended on my computer (it doesn't), I would be more than glad to have him on my side, not some random forum folks who argue about preferences any time I have issue to adress.

[chk071]

The only difference you get with computers bought from stores like SCAN is that you get hardware support, and that they might be a bit more thoroughly tested. In general, you just have to take care of hardware compatibility. As dellboy wrote, it's no rocket science. I bought my computer as a complete package from a shop which builts computers for gaming and other uses, and it ran absolutely perfect, and, some weeks ago, i built in a new graphics card, and new memory (checked for compatibility on the mainboard's manufacturers website), and now, it runs absolutely perfect for a couple of weeks...

You know, what i think you get when you buy from SCAN, or similar stores, is experience in building hardware, which is well proven, and compatible for certain tasks. For example, Kaine stated here that a certain wi-fi card series is known to not make problems with audio interfaces, and my former wi-fi card (which was a cheapo TP-Link card... never again...) caused my Steinberg interfaces to have audio dropouts, and, since i bought the proposed ASUS card, i didn't have any more problems.

So, yeah, in general, no witchcraft involved. And Apple also just puts on their pants the same way as all the others. I don't see a difference to buying a computer from Dell, or HP. Or building your own, if you halfway know what you're doing (i'm really not an expert in that regard either).

And, regarding the "look for drivers" argument: Many, many drivers are included in Windows Update these days in Windows 10. When i fresh installed Windows 10 on my laptop, i didn't search for, or installed a single driver... it's all included in Windows Update. Plug & play. You simply install the OS, and, bit by bit, it installs the drivers on your system. You may want to manually install the one or the other driver, because, sometimes, the drivers in Windows Update are either old, or, you'll end up with some general chipset drivers, which are not optimal, and cause some components to not function, as i've read, but, in general, there's really a lot of stuff the OS already does for you.

[dellboy]

That's what separates SCAN/Apple builds with DIY builds that have issues some developers or users can't even adress, we can argue whole day, but I read stuff Kaine is writting on here and that dude knows his stuff and anyone who got help from him can testify that, he does more than few screws and cables and if my life depended on my computer (it doesn't), I would be more than glad to have him on my side, not some random forum folks who argue about preferences any time I have issue to adress.

Ok, I own up, I am really a top Mensa member with a 170 IQ.

You have to be at least to that level to build a PC.

All the lower level average intelligence people buy MACs because they are so simple to use

[Zexila]

The only difference you get with computers bought from stores like SCAN is that you get hardware support, and that they might be a bit more thoroughly tested. In general, you just have to take care of hardware compatibility....

Exactly, that's big "just" for someone who just doesn't have time to pull it off, becuase he put all of it somewhere else.

You know, what i think you get when you buy from SCAN, or similar stores, is experience in building hardware, which is well proven, and compatible for certain tasks.

Exactly my point.

So, yeah, in general, no witchcraft involved.

No witchraft, "just" time and knowledge.

And Apple also just puts on their pants the same way as all the others. I don't see a difference to buying a computer from Dell, or HP. Or building your own, if you halfway know what you're doing (i'm really not an expert in that regard either).

Well I see and adressed the differecne and you did also, so we are going in circles again.

[Zexila]

That's what separates SCAN/Apple builds with DIY builds that have issues some developers or users can't even adress, we can argue whole day, but I read stuff Kaine is writting on here and that dude knows his stuff and anyone who got help from him can testify that, he does more than few screws and cables and if my life depended on my computer (it doesn't), I would be more than glad to have him on my side, not some random forum folks who argue about preferences any time I have issue to adress.

Ok, I own up, I am really a top Mensa member with a 170 IQ.

You have to be at least to that level to build a PC.

All the lower level average intelligence people buy MACs because they are so simple to use

It's sad you need to do this thing, but internet, have a good one, I'm out.