Host advice please, help me get started

[chagzuki]

BTW, the fact that you've 'narrowed it down to FL, N-track, Making waves, and Orion' indicates that you don't really know what you're looking for or what is available.

[Wopelka]

Hi Wopelka,

I had another question, not related to this.
If I remember well, you speak french, don't you ?
The reason I'm asking is that i'm working on a song of wich the music is ready but don't find any inspiration for the lyrics

Would you be interrested to give it a try ?

Rony

yes, with pleasure.
PM me a link with your music, and i'll try to find words that fit in.

cheers

[cptgone]

there are different kinds of hosts.

- studio's like Reason:
a closed package containing synths and sequencing

- full blown sequencers like Cubase
open ended: add all the VST(i)'s you want
audio recording (from external sources like guitars, mikes...)

- virtual synth racks like V-Stack
enables you to play VST(i)'s live - no recording / programming though

so, your first question should be: what do i want to do? make songs / record audio / play some VSTs?

[wrench45us]

I want to start making music on the computer, never have before.

turn back now, before your bank account is drained and your head is filled with very odd bits of information and product data that only the occasionally cranky folk here at kvr understand.

just the other day we were told at work we shouldn't discuss work even with spouses as we're bound by confidentiality agreements, so at dinner I struck up what i thought was a safe and tidy conversation about my hobby and the relative merits of various host midi editing models. She took on much the same expression as when i used to talk about work.

rest asured if you are committed to this path, it will be 6 - 9 months before you'll realize what host you should have started with and at least a year before you'll know what instruments really work for you.

that said it's hard to go wrong starting with FLStudio fruity edition as it works flawlessly as a vsti inside another host. i do find a lot of what it does clumsy and cluttered, but it gets the job done, it's got a nice entry price point and works great as a step sequencer for drums -- and it's a reasonable introduction to what computer music making involves.

If you intend to do audio recording that's another step up for FLStudio and you may benefit in that case by considering something like Tracktion as a host.
My humble opinion is the computer music making field is farly fragmented -- the friendliest, most accessible programs tend to do one aspect very well and the other aspects are clumsy.
Live does looping very well.
Tracktion does audio very well.
[Not that a lot of people recognize it] but Project 5 does midi note editing very well.
EnergyXT does its modular modulation/component thing very well.

something like Sonar or Cubase attempt to do everything and they get a bit cluttered in the process

we adapt. we learn things with and without the aid of manuals. we try to figure out workflow and get something working when there's often very little to go on. welcome.

[opiadream]

Orion Platinum is something like $299 now. I find that price ridiculous. Pro might be OK/fairly value for money.

considering everything you get with orion plat
I completely disagree with that comment.

I'd also say if you narrowed it down to FL and orion
go with orion.It's more intuitive.
I have both

guess which one is collecting dust now

[t-willy]

hey jaseismusic,

couple of questions:

what's your main use of a new host - ie. audio or midi or both?

also, if you don't mind, what's your budget?

lates

t-willy

[Mephit Blue]

I can comment on FL Studio and N-Track.

FL Studio
Pros:
* Comes with a lot for the price.
* Swiss army knife, acts a as a virtual synth, does audio recording, etc...
* Great at making drum patterns and pattern based music

Cons:
* Not well documented
* The process to record audio is very cumbersome
* Difficult to work on long sections of audio or midi. It really is geared towards putting small patterns of music together.

I am able to accomplish a lot using FL studio, but I eventually decided to look for another sequencer due to cumbersome process needed to record audio. If you have no plans for recording audio than FL Studio is great.

N-Track:

N-Track's strength is traditional audio recording. Basically what FL Studio is great at is the areas where N-Track is the weakest. I used N-Track for a little bit, but found myself abandoning it because of it's weakness in working with virtual instruments.

As others have said, which one is best probably depends on what you will do the most. If you are mostly recording audio, then N-Track would likely be the better choice. If you will mostly be using virtual synths for your music than FL Studio is better. These are two extremely different hosts that support totally different ways of creating music.

[DevonB]

turn back now, before your bank account is drained and your head is filled with very odd bits of information and product data that only the occasionally cranky folk here at kvr understand.

Awww do I have to be known as occasionally cranky?

Devon

[Teksonik]

I can comment on FL Studio and N-Track.

FL Studio
Pros:
* Comes with a lot for the price.
* Swiss army knife, acts a as a virtual synth, does audio recording, etc...
* Great at making drum patterns and pattern based music

Cons:
* Not well documented
* The process to record audio is very cumbersome
* Difficult to work on long sections of audio or midi. It really is geared towards putting small patterns of music together.

Ten seconds to setup an audio track to record.What is cumbersome about that?

Back to the original poster's question. Not a smart ass or cranky answer,you asked for advice and this is what I would say. Try the demos,keep trying the demos and you'll answer your own question. Don't let me or anyone else tell you what's best for you. You'll get people here defending every host you mentioned with their very lives but in the end you must do the work to find the right host to fit your workflow,style etc.

[TechnoWeeniePas]

Bullshit. JaseisMusic asked very specific question and described his situation and what he has tried and in what stage his decission is quite clearly. Bucodi jumped in and played the smart ass without giving any valuable information useful for JaseisMusic, because about all the "advice" he gave was on things that JaseisMusic has most obviously considered already. Yes, all this can be read from his first post - if you do read it.

Ok...he said he needed a host...for live use? for studio use? Does he need looping, recording, tracking, how indepth of midi, etc? We need some major detail if you want us to pick out a host for you man! No "I need a host...and it has to suit all my needs...good luck figuring out exactly what those are." And no it is not obvious that he has consitered those other options...I dont know how many times (in the archives) there have been people that have never heard of the "obvious" choices of hosts when looking for a new host to purchase. The first post does not hold enough detail to warrent a better reply than was given.

[TechnoWeeniePas]

And BTW I'm sick of this wisenheimer "search the archives" advice. This is an online forum, and especially at KvR it is mostly unpossible to filter out the valuable information from numerous threads. Neither is the archived 'information' in any way structured. So if someone has specific questions, please come and ask! (@ JaseisMusic: Unfortunately I can't comment on any of the mentioned hosts here).

The archives are there specifically for this type of thing! What other reason than for going back and reviewing discusssions already had? Look if they werent there to be used why have them? The inability to search them is the fault of the user searching not the lack of good information there.

Furthermore, has it ever occured to you, TechnoWeeniePas and Bucodi, that even after trying a demo there could be unanswered questions left - especially for beginners?

Quite so...and if there is a NEW question being asked by all means ask it. But when it is something that has been covered MANY times before in many ways why ask it again and not use the vault of information already contained here?

[quincy]

I can comment on FL Studio and N-Track.

FL Studio
Pros:
* Comes with a lot for the price.
* Swiss army knife, acts a as a virtual synth, does audio recording, etc...
* Great at making drum patterns and pattern based music

Cons:
* Not well documented
* The process to record audio is very cumbersome
* Difficult to work on long sections of audio or midi. It really is geared towards putting small patterns of music together.

Ten seconds to setup an audio track to record.What is cumbersome about that?

Back to the original poster's question. Not a smart ass or cranky answer,you asked for advice and this is what I would say. Try the demos,keep trying the demos and you'll answer your own question. Don't let me or anyone else tell you what's best for you. You'll get people here defending every host you mentioned with their very lives but in the end you must do the work to find the right host to fit your workflow,style etc.

Just demonstrates the fact that its all personal taste, and people need to try things to find what they like.

I think FLStudio is fun, but i never get anything done with it because i find it takes too many differnt windows to navigates, and its all a bit fiddly.

But thats my opinion. I know many people love it.

Decide what you actually want to do first, and how you think you'd like to work.

My list of decent/affordable starter hosts:

Orion Pro
FLStudio Producer
REason (second hand from ebay makes it affordable)

All thse hosts offer a package that covers a lot iof ground to get startedsuch as sequencing, included synths and drum stuff, and complex rotuing IF required.

In my opinion a newbie could do a lot worse than FLStudio Producer. Not my cup of tea personally, but you could create complete tracks out of the box without any other software needed.

And surely thats a good thing for a beginner.

[Mephit Blue]

I can comment on FL Studio and N-Track.

FL Studio
Pros:
* Comes with a lot for the price.
* Swiss army knife, acts a as a virtual synth, does audio recording, etc...
* Great at making drum patterns and pattern based music

Cons:
* Not well documented
* The process to record audio is very cumbersome
* Difficult to work on long sections of audio or midi. It really is geared towards putting small patterns of music together.

Ten seconds to setup an audio track to record.What is cumbersome about that?

What I find combersome is the need to go to the mixer, pick a channel and set it up to receive audio and then remember to also to set it to record by hitting the record on the mixer setting. I invariably do a take where I forget to set the channel to record in the mixer. This process just isn't as intuitive as adding an audio track hiting the main sequencer record button to start things. In a traditional sequencer, the process takes less steps.

[cptgone]

And BTW I'm sick of this wisenheimer "search the archives" advice. This is an online forum, and especially at KvR it is mostly unpossible to filter out the valuable information from numerous threads. Neither is the archived 'information' in any way structured. So if someone has specific questions, please come and ask! (@ JaseisMusic: Unfortunately I can't comment on any of the mentioned hosts here).

The archives are there specifically for this type of thing! What other reason than for going back and reviewing discusssions already had? Look if they werent there to be used why have them? The inability to search them is the fault of the user searching not the lack of good information there.

- can't blame people for wanting up to date info.

- and KvR is more than just a knowledgebase, it's a social thing, isn't it? infotainment!

- not everyone can do a search the right way, especially absolute beginners who don't know the lingo.

[TechnoWeeniePas]

- can't blame people for wanting up to date info.

- and KvR is more than just a knowledgebase, it's a social thing, isn't it? infotainment!

- not everyone can do a search the right way, especially absolute beginners who don't know the lingo.

I cant agree more. Hence my comment about asking new questions. Look I am not trying to be a jerk here I am was just trying to say that the original poster was not listening to the replys...and did not have enough information about specifics to recive the ansewer he apperantly wanted to hear.

The social aspect of KvR is very important and I was not trying to deny that...but along with keeping a good social aspect one should not tell people not to reply with relevent information.

The basic point I was trying to make was that the oringinal reply was valid...albeit with some extra information the basic pricipal stands good: do your research (yes I agree that discussing this is good research and that new things come up but there are also past threads that would help to answer the questions in the archive), try out all the demos (DEEP trying...manual reading and all...this is a big investment afterall and not something to be allowing others to choose for you without ALOT of information about what you need), and then purchase the one that fits YOUR needs not someone elses. I dont know of better general advice to buying a host than that...short, sweet, and simple.

The other (and imho the most important) point I brought up was that we didnt have enough info. Sure he narrowed it down to a handfull...but never told us what others he had tried, what he did/didnt like about them, what he needed the host to do and how, amungst other relevent questions. Without this how are we suppoed to help him choose?

Sure he said he wanted to know how they all stacked up "midi, audio, VSTi and mixing-wise" but that leaves alot open...I mean is he talking about having the midi controll internal soft synths or external gear? Does he want to know about timing, editing, etc? What about "audio" do you mean output quality, input quality and options, etc? The question is so vague that its hard to answer without clarification.

Once again not trying to be a jerk just trying to say that the reply was valid and that more info was needed...nothing more. I am sorry if I came off wrong in all that.