Cakewalk Gets zplane élastique in build 2018.09 Build 25

[THE INTRANCER]

Wow! You must be really butthurt to write such a rant after so long. Otherwise, why bother? Haters never cease to amuse me

And ignorance....will be your downfall...

Here's a recent thread over on the cakewalk forum...among many of the other issue's

"BandLab Cakewalk (incl. latest 09/2018 ver) gets stuck upon opening a large project file"
http://forum.cakewalk.com/BandLab-Cakew ... 87764.aspx

___

Just for reference, some tracks I've composed in Studio One, are huge.... up to 180 tracks and highly complex...I've never had them fail to open.

[planetearth]

Funny that those who claim that Cakewalk is so buggy are those who do not actually use it, and those who actually do seem to be pretty happy with it. We have the usual handful of haters who drop by in every Cakewalk thread, telling the usual stories about "bugs" they found long ago, when they tried the DAW for a while, without telling much about them. For the most part might be the usual confusion when you just launch a new DAW without RTFM, and you expect everything to work like your current DAW. Or like our favourite S1 fanboi, because you just tampered with the program installation until it did not work anymore.

The truth is that Cakewalk is a solid program, and a look at its forums today show that the people reporting problems are few, most of them are just user confusion that gets solved quickly, and that the developers are actively participating in the forum and taking inmediate notive of everything that might look like a real bug.

I don't have time to test every existing DAW, but I have used pretty extensively Ableton and Cakewalk, and Reaper a little less, and I do not find Cakewalk any more buggy or unreliable than the other two, and it actually comes out on the top in many aspects. But it is a deep program and I understand that a casual approach to test it without RTFM might be frustrating for some, and lead to believe that some parts of it do not work well.

+100

I've used Cakewalk (when it was called that), SONAR, FLS and a bit of Studio One (version 3) and Cubase. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, and SONAR had no more bugs than the others, in my experience.

Studio One was easy to get up and running, but it does a lot less than SONAR, especially with MIDI. Cubase was the only one with a similar depth and "history" of development as SONAR; it's been around almost as long. But it requires more from your system than SONAR (again, in my experience), and was rather picky about the plug-ins it would recognize. For example, you had to enable Aero on your Windows 7 machine (which does nothing for a DAW, but requires more RAM and processor cycles), and Cubase wouldn't use the older, 32-bit plug-ins that most of us still have.

That said, if I don't have something constructive or practical to offer about a product, I don't see the point in saying anything. Note, I didn't say that I had to "like" a product or gush over it. If I've used it and had problems, I might mention the specific problem(s)--and what I did to work around them, if possible. To simply bash a product without providing specific examples is pointless. It helps no one that some random person on some website said he didn't like/hated the product you're considering--especially if he won't provide examples.

Steve

[planetearth]

Wow! You must be really butthurt to write such a rant after so long. Otherwise, why bother? Haters never cease to amuse me

And ignorance....will be your downfall...

Here's a recent thread over on the cakewalk forum...among many of the other issue's

"BandLab Cakewalk (incl. latest 09/2018 ver) gets stuck upon opening a large project file"
http://forum.cakewalk.com/BandLab-Cakew ... 87764.aspx

___

Just for reference, some tracks I've composed in Studio One, are huge.... up to 180 tracks and highly complex...I've never had them fail to open.

This is ONE PERSON'S example--it's not a known issue. By his own admission, this was an extremely large project file--and here's the kicker: IT WORKED! He wasn't waiting for whatever SONAR had to do to deal with the changes he made to the system (Windows updates, plug-in updates or anything else), but in the end, the project opened.

Here's what Cakewalk support found in the file: "...the primary reason for the very slow load is that it appears to have millions of audio snap markers in some clips. Most likely this was due to some kind of corruption due to some bugs in earlier versions. Well and also the fact that it has 490 audio tracks and 6900 measures as well as ARA clips

In any case we are doing some optimizations and I feel confident that in the next release we should get this project loading orders of magnitude faster than it ever did."

And again, it was ONE PERSON'S issue with ONE corrupt file, and in the end, he actually had no problem at all, since the file opened.

I'm not saying SONAR is perfect at all. I'm no fanboi. And yes, I would have been very upset and frustrated if I had to go through this. But if you're going to complain about it, give the person who asked about it something from YOUR experience--especially if it's a known issue that's also a show-stopper. THAT would help more people avoid problems. Posting links to a problem ONE PERSON had that was quickly resolved with the help of support staff (who responded within just a couple of hours to each message) does not help your case.

And if your DAW of choice would have worked smoothly with a 6900-measure song with 490 tracks, "millions" of AudioSnap markers (which your DAW probably doesn't support) and ARA clips (ditto), please let us know. We'll all dump SONAR in a heartbeat and join you on your bandwagon.

Steve

[ruslan.st]

I find it a bit strange. Former users of other DAWs look less critical about DAWs they left. Yes, sometimes they express their frustration, reasons of leave etc., but not so strongly. Only Cakewalk looks so much polarized, like there are total loosers unable to use software properly and absolutely happy experts, who know how to use it right, configure their PCs right etc., and nobody in the middle. Glad I didn't use it for long

[dellboy]

180 tracks and highly complex...

To Infinity and Beyond............................................

[Jim Roseberry]

The thing I find really telling about the Cakewalk/SONAR/CbB situation is the sheer amount of users who have left to other products with no intention of returning. The forums are a ghost town in comparison to how they were.

What that is telling... is that folks are unsure about Cakewalk/Sonar's future.
Nothing more... and nothing less

A lot of Cakewalk/Sonar users are now using other DAW applications... with a wait-and-see attitude about the future. We build/configure a lot of DAWs (been doing that for about 25 years).
In almost every case (working with Cakewalk/Sonar users), they're running StudioOne, Cubase, etc... but also want CbB installed.
Given the circumstances, that's a wise decision... with maximum flexibility.

I'm a Cakewalk user who goes back to when the "Forums" were on CompuServe.
That's right about the release of Pro Audio v4 (first version of Cakewalk that could record audio).
The last time I had any major issue with Sonar was at v7 (when it was first released).
No show-stopper type issues for years.
We have a pro mix engineer (well known in Prog Rock circles) who's been using Sonar for well over a decade. Still using it.
This guy makes a living in CA (using Sonar)... working on major label releases.
I hear from him in the rare event that he encounters some type of odd issue.
Not once has he encountered major/show-stopper type problems.
If that were the case, I'd be the first to hear about it.

I have no major stability issues with CbB, Cubase, StudioOne, Reaper, Samplitude, Audition, Live, or ProTools. If you can't accomplish work in any of the above, the problem isn't software.

[planetearth]

The thing I find really telling about the Cakewalk/SONAR/CbB situation is the sheer amount of users who have left to other products with no intention of returning. The forums are a ghost town in comparison to how they were.

What that is telling... is that folks are unsure about Cakewalk/Sonar's future.
Nothing more... and nothing less

A lot of Cakewalk/Sonar users are now using other DAW applications... with a wait-and-see attitude about the future. We build/configure a lot of DAWs (been doing that for about 25 years).
In almost every case (working with Cakewalk/Sonar users), they're running StudioOne, Cubase, etc... but also want CbB installed.
Given the circumstances, that's a wise decision... with maximum flexibility.

I'm a Cakewalk user who goes back to when the "Forums" were on CompuServe.
That's right about the release of Pro Audio v4 (first version of Cakewalk that could record audio).
The last time I had any major issue with Sonar was at v7 (when it was first released).
No show-stopper type issues for years.
We have a pro mix engineer (well known in Prog Rock circles) who's been using Sonar for well over a decade. Still using it.
This guy makes a living in CA (using Sonar)... working on major label releases.
I hear from him in the rare event that he encounters some type of odd issue.
Not once has he encountered major/show-stopper type problems.
If that were the case, I'd be the first to hear about it.

I have no major stability issues with CbB, Cubase, StudioOne, Reaper, Samplitude, Audition, Live, or ProTools. If you can't accomplish work in any of the above, the problem isn't software.

Jim, I've seen your name in the support forums for more than a decade, so I know you know what you're talking about. And you're right: if you can't accomplish work in one of the DAWs you mentioned, the problem isn't the software.

Thanks for taking the time to chime in here. As others have pointed out in previous posts, Cakewalk gets virtually no love on KVR. Most of the posts about it here attract the trolls and haters who seem to have nothing else to do with their time. (It usually fares much better on Gearslutz, where fewer people have time to just bash something they don't like or don't understand how to use.)

Steve

[Grizzellda]

The thing I find really telling about the Cakewalk/SONAR/CbB situation is the sheer amount of users who have left to other products with no intention of returning. The forums are a ghost town in comparison to how they were.

What that is telling... is that folks are unsure about Cakewalk/Sonar's future.
Nothing more... and nothing less

A lot of Cakewalk/Sonar users are now using other DAW applications... with a wait-and-see attitude about the future. We build/configure a lot of DAWs (been doing that for about 25 years).
In almost every case (working with Cakewalk/Sonar users), they're running StudioOne, Cubase, etc... but also want CbB installed.
Given the circumstances, that's a wise decision... with maximum flexibility.

I'm a Cakewalk user who goes back to when the "Forums" were on CompuServe.
That's right about the release of Pro Audio v4 (first version of Cakewalk that could record audio).
The last time I had any major issue with Sonar was at v7 (when it was first released).
No show-stopper type issues for years.
We have a pro mix engineer (well known in Prog Rock circles) who's been using Sonar for well over a decade. Still using it.
This guy makes a living in CA (using Sonar)... working on major label releases.
I hear from him in the rare event that he encounters some type of odd issue.
Not once has he encountered major/show-stopper type problems.
If that were the case, I'd be the first to hear about it.

I have no major stability issues with CbB, Cubase, StudioOne, Reaper, Samplitude, Audition, Live, or ProTools. If you can't accomplish work in any of the above, the problem isn't software.

JIm!!!

I have read alot of your posts on the old Cakewalk forum.

What is your current thinking regarding all of this? I understand it is a broad subject. Where is SONAR headed, in your view?

What about z3ta? Do you have any insights?

[Jim Roseberry]

Yes, I'm old... but I don't look like your grandpa!

Regarding CbB and the future:

First, I want to say that I genuinely like the Cakewalk staff.
Morten, Noel, Ron, Greg Hendershot, etc.
Hated to see Sonar... and established relationships of ~30 years... just disappear!

When Greg left Cakewalk, I'm not sure things were ever quite the same.
The founder of a company has a certain fire, drive, vision, whatever you want to call it...
From the outside, it looked like Cakewalk had lost direction.
This is speculation on my part... so I'll leave it there.

Many of us were encouraged to see BandLab acquire Cakewalk.
Meng looks to be honest/forthcoming (as possible) when it comes to communication/announcements.
It's great to see Noel Borthwick still developing Sonar!

I think that most Cakewalk/Sonar users are a bit "shell-shocked".
As such, many are "cautiously optimistic"... but are using other DAW applications.
Most of our Cakewalk clients have us install both CbB and their new DAW of choice.
That's a logical/rational approach...

Even if you stick with CbB for most things, having StudioOne in the toolbox is very useful.
CD layout, mastering, burning, and export to DDP (alone) justify the cost of adding StudioOne.

[Grizzellda]

Thanx for the nice reply Jim...I am gonna keep watching all of this. SONAR has some great stuff, but I hear what you are saying regarding other DAWs.

But what of z3ta? Do you know anything? On KVR, we have speculated about z3ta 3!!!

[Jim Roseberry]

I wish I knew specifics about z3ta.
Don't have any solid information.
I'd speculate that (if it's owned by CbB), it may be a while before further development.
There's a lot to get established.

The attrition of users is probably why we're seeing CbB free (at least for the time being).

[Grizzellda]

I wish I knew specifics about z3ta.
Don't have any solid information.
I'd speculate that (if it's owned by CbB), it may be a while before further development.
There's a lot to get established.

The attrition of users is probably why we're seeing CbB free (at least for the time being).

Right...well upgrading, and maintaining z3ta could be the coolest thing they could be doing, in my view. A new, modern version would be fabulous...like, a version that is mindful of other recent synths like Rapid, Hive, MPowerSynth.

All of that, and more of the z3ta! :

[jinotsuh]

Well I see the 'boys' have their little pity party thread going on in the Coffee House over at the Cakewalk forums, much chest beating and back slapping, but unfortunately the truth is that Cakewalk/SONAR, and now CbB has never really had any respect shown it's way by the community at large, was pretty much always loosing money and not a viable concern for it's parent companies etc etc.

Now you mightn't want to believe me, and that's fine, it's your choice if you want to live in denial, but lets let the Cakewalk fans, the loyal followers, the fanbois have their say on the matter, perhaps you will believe them?

This is just from a very quick search, as you know the Cakewalk forums are as buggy and flaky as the software itself, the search engine is practically useless, posts and threads disappear after editing etc etc, the list is long and distinguished, just as the list of unfixed bugs in the software is, but there are many many instances of this same recurring theme over the years, users always asking why Cakewalk/SONAR never gets shown any respect, why it isn't popular, why it's never talked about, why 3rd party companies often leave it out of the 'Tested with' lists, why it's not considered professional etc etc, on and on it goes, as I said it has been a recurring theme over the years. Are these loyal users also mistaken?. So without further adieu, lets let the loyal Cakewalk members have their say shall we?

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Tired-of-feel ... 68247.aspx

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Why-Does-Sona ... 08543.aspx

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sonar-is-not- ... 14507.aspx

http://forum.cakewalk.com/why-cakewalk- ... 11660.aspx

http://forum.cakewalk.com/WHY-IS-SONAR- ... 98287.aspx

http://forum.cakewalk.com/As-popular-as ... 02049.aspx

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Are-WE-killin ... 07559.aspx

Like I said, this is just from a quick search with a broken search engine, I really couldn't be bothered any further, but there are plenty, plenty more along similar lines. We all likely remember when the 'boys' kicked up a big stink because Cakewalk/SONAR didn't have a sub forum over at GearSlutz? well they eventually got one after much winging and complaining, go check it out, see how much use it gets

Be sure to have a good read through those links, there is some gems in there from very loyal users of Cakewalk, like this one from Mudgel, a staunch Cakewalk supporter for many years,

Are we killing Sonar? No.

I think Cakewalk did that. Despite how good we think Sonar is, it has never reached the prominence we felt it should have. That is something that can’t be laid at the feet of Gibson or Roland before that. There’s something about Cakewalk’s management that has put the company in the under dog position for all time.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3707838

Then there is Fireberd, another long time Cakewalk supporter,

I don't think Sonar is/was as popular as we would like to believe. As I talked to others in recording I was the only one using Sonar.

The Gibson acquisition as it appears didn't do it any favors. Face it, a company doesn't dump something if its profitable and maybe even marginally profitable.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3702063

And another . . .

That's exactly my experience, most if not all of the Professional studios never used Sonar, though they tried it and their iterations and felt it wasn't up to Pro-Level with so many "Bugs & Crashes?" I felt like I was the only one to believe in it? Even though Sonar "Crashed many times" I stayed with it. Since moving to S1 with heavy recording schedule "Rock Solid" and became 2nd nature surprisingly fast, "Very Nice DAW".

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3702072

and another, bitman, long time Cakewalk user/supporter,

Sonar is not that popular.
In many ways it's the Dangerfield of Daws.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3702157

and from the daddy of all Cakewalk fanbois, forum host John

I guess it never bothered me much. I do like it when I get a semblance of recognition when I mention I use Sonar. All that means is I don't need to explain what it is. Most of the time no one knows what it is

http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3570939

There is much much more, and some good reading in there from staunch and loyal Cakewalk/SONAR users and supporters, but I guess they have it wrong as well, and aren't telling it how it really is?

[Hink]

no reason at all to bring their forum issues here, completely off topic derailment. Please no one pick up on it

[planetearth]

no reason at all to bring their forum issues here, completely off topic derailment. Please no one pick up on it

Pick up on it, hell, I didn't even bother to read it. I could tell from the first sentence it had nothing to do with the original topic, and that it would just be someone cherry-picking examples to fit his argument. Because no other developer has upset users who post things in forums.

Steve