Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2178 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Post Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:21 pm

sleepcircle wrote:sorry about being the forum userbase equivalent of a clingy girlfriend.

also that other stuff you posted about how the programming is going is fascinating, i've only ever read about this sort of stuff being used in rendering engines and simulations and stuff.

although i mean, this technically IS a simulation. i guess it just doesn't operate in the same domains as most other simulations I can think of.
LOL! No worries :) When I'm quiet it's usually because I'm working hard.

The memory throughput of audio is the biggest challenge here for GPUs since gamers don't really care if a scene takes a couple of seconds to load all the textures, but for audio a couple of seconds of silence is a bit crap :( All the cards with higher memory throughput (ie speed to and from the GPU) are typically more expensive and more niche scientific computing type affairs, so I won't really be able to support those types of devices.

But the good news is that this PDK method means I can use AVX256 for the core number crunching, which is a feature all current CPUs have. Right now I can only use AVX256 for the computation of non-linear functions like exp(x), not for the matrix solver itself, but the PDK method can use it for both, and keeps a cap on the peak iteration count at the same time. Very excited times for me right now, it's been around 6 months of R&D and it's almost production ready :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

sleepcircle
KVRist
351 posts since 28 Nov, 2016

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:49 pm

andy-cytomic wrote:Right now I can only use AVX256 for the computation of non-linear functions like exp(x), not for the matrix solver itself, but the PDK method can use it for both, and keeps a cap on the peak iteration count at the same time.
Yes! This is sort of what I meant, I knew there were certain things like exponents and bleedin' square roots that you could just hand over tidily to an existing function, which is what I assume most plugins mean when they say they are "SSE Optimized for Intel Whatever", and in some cases synthesizers multi-thread things by handing off different voices to different processes, but I couldn't think of any particular audio plugin which is doing what you're talking about! This is quite exciting and I'd like to congratulate you on figuring it all out. Honestly I'm trying to think intelligently about this but I cannot imagine how you pulled it off.

(I am not a very good programmer, it must be said.)

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2178 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:10 am

sleepcircle wrote: Yes! This is sort of what I meant, I knew there were certain things like exponents and bleedin' square roots that you could just hand over tidily to an existing function, which is what I assume most plugins mean when they say they are "SSE Optimized for Intel Whatever", and in some cases synthesizers multi-thread things by handing off different voices to different processes, but I couldn't think of any particular audio plugin which is doing what you're talking about! This is quite exciting and I'd like to congratulate you on figuring it all out. Honestly I'm trying to think intelligently about this but I cannot imagine how you pulled it off.

(I am not a very good programmer, it must be said.)
Normally "SSE optimised" refers to the fact you can do stereo processing for the same cost as mono using SSE2 with pretty much zero change to any code other than declaring the type you're using to be "__m128" instead of "double". Optimisations can also be made for FIR type operations where there are no implicit equations or feedback loops complicating things, which rules out most analog modelling stuff since not only are there loads of feedback loops but the feedback loops have to be solved without inserting additional delays. Optimisations beyond this are typically only applicable to polyphonic synth / sampler type situations where each voice of the synth can be computed in parallel, since that is an entirely parallel operation (unless you're doing a piano simulation with feedback between strings etc). In The Drop and The Scream I calculate parallel non-linearities, which definitely helps, but the PDK method is another level above this in terms of parallelisation (yes, that is actually a word! https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parallelization )
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2178 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:41 am

I'm still working away flat out, and everything is still looking great for the new PDK method. The updated expression class is doing brilliant optimisations, it's pulled out every common sub-expression that it can and pre-computes as many terms as possible to make the innermost loop lean. Looking at the generated code there is nothing I could do manually to make it any faster, it is a thing of beauty if if you're into raw number crunching :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

sleepcircle
KVRist
351 posts since 28 Nov, 2016

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:07 pm

That is REALLY cool to read, about the expression class—well done.

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Vertion
KVRist
456 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:11 am


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Elevated_being
KVRist
155 posts since 31 Jan, 2014 from Denmark

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:25 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:28 pm
nilhartman wrote:I'm really curious to hear how HD mode will alter The Glue's overall behavior. Really looking forward to running audio through this HD mode.
Andy, if The Glue HD is part of The Glue 2... then what exactly is The Glue 2 ? :D
The Glue 2 will be the current version of The Glue with a few things added, but enough so I think it's worth a full version number update. You will be able to load current presets and get the same sounds, but internally I'll switch over to using a fixed cpu DK-method solver, which should help reduce cpu usage for your current projects - this is called MD mode. I'll also add an HD mode, which will have increased cpu load with lots more detail and non-linearities in the model, and a dual mono to stereo variable link control.
Will there be a small upgrade fee for version 1 users? Or do we have to pay full price?
I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies.

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ScoreMan7
KVRer
9 posts since 14 Oct, 2018

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:23 pm

Elevated_being wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:25 am
andy-cytomic wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:28 pm
nilhartman wrote:I'm really curious to hear how HD mode will alter The Glue's overall behavior. Really looking forward to running audio through this HD mode.
Andy, if The Glue HD is part of The Glue 2... then what exactly is The Glue 2 ? :D
The Glue 2 will be the current version of The Glue with a few things added, but enough so I think it's worth a full version number update. You will be able to load current presets and get the same sounds, but internally I'll switch over to using a fixed cpu DK-method solver, which should help reduce cpu usage for your current projects - this is called MD mode. I'll also add an HD mode, which will have increased cpu load with lots more detail and non-linearities in the model, and a dual mono to stereo variable link control.
Will there be a small upgrade fee for version 1 users? Or do we have to pay full price?
I like the sound of this :hihi:

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2178 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:42 am

Elevated_being wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:25 am
Will there be a small upgrade fee for version 1 users? Or do we have to pay full price?
The Glue v2 will be a free upgrade for all existing customers of The Glue v1 :tu:

An existing customer is a anyone that has an order and matching license for that order in their Cytomic accounts.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

meloco_go
KVRian
654 posts since 21 Sep, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:34 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:42 am
Elevated_being wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:25 am
Will there be a small upgrade fee for version 1 users? Or do we have to pay full price?
The Glue v2 will be a free upgrade for all existing customers of The Glue v1 :tu:

An existing customer is a anyone that has an order and matching license for that order in their Cytomic accounts.
Can I buy it one more time, but you release it sooner? :hihi:

sleepcircle
KVRist
351 posts since 28 Nov, 2016

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:54 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:42 am
The Glue v2 will be a free upgrade for all existing customers of The Glue v1 :tu:
that is extraordinarily generous of you. i almost feel bad getting it for free. maybe you could make a 'donation' option for upgrades or something.

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Delta Sign
KVRist
487 posts since 22 Jun, 2018

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:02 am

Yeah, that's indeed very generous! Thanks a lot :tu:

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2178 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:24 pm

sleepcircle wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:54 am
andy-cytomic wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:42 am
The Glue v2 will be a free upgrade for all existing customers of The Glue v1 :tu:
that is extraordinarily generous of you. i almost feel bad getting it for free. maybe you could make a 'donation' option for upgrades or something.
That's an interesting idea, but there is something that would help more. We want to support our customers with ongoing updates, to say thanks for supporting us with your purchase.

If you like the update once you've used it, and think that it makes The Glue even better value, then please let your friends know about it. Increasing sales and increasing the user base means we can develop more products more quickly and at a higher level, and customers talking about our Cytomic products and spreading the word, and getting genuinely excited by them is the best way to do this! Talking to friends directly, posts to forums and social media, uploading production videos, all that sort of stuff is worth the most to us :clap:
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

DJMaytag
KVRist
365 posts since 15 Dec, 2012 from Madison, Wiscompton

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:24 am

As far as V1 goes, I’m trying to sort out a phasing issue I’m having in Reason 10.2, on a bass drum and a parallel bass drum, upon rendering.

Is there any potential for a bug that the real-time va render delay compensation isn’t working properly in Reason, be it on your end or Reason’s (ie Reason doesn’t know how to handle DC differently in render mode)?

EDIT: a mixdown definitely sounds correct now that I’ve set all my instances of The Glue to the same real-time vs render settings (2x).
Reason 10 | ABL3 | SEM V2 | Korg Collection & MS-20M | Eurorack modular | Roland Juno-106, JX-10, TR-606, TB-03, & TR-08 | OG Minimoog | Prophet-600 | Matrix-1000

Deep Trance/Retro Acid Trance/Progressive House on Souncloud

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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2178 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:16 pm

DJMaytag wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:24 am
As far as V1 goes, I’m trying to sort out a phasing issue I’m having in Reason 10.2, on a bass drum and a parallel bass drum, upon rendering.

Is there any potential for a bug that the real-time va render delay compensation isn’t working properly in Reason, be it on your end or Reason’s (ie Reason doesn’t know how to handle DC differently in render mode)?

EDIT: a mixdown definitely sounds correct now that I’ve set all my instances of The Glue to the same real-time vs render settings (2x).
I've never tested Reason's plugin delay compensation because I don't have a copy of Reason. When oversampling The Glue correctly reports to all hosts with sample accuracy how much latency is introduced by the oversampling process. You should be able to have each instance with its own oversampling settings just fine. Please contact Propellerhead software and get them to have a look at things, I'm happy to provide them with NFRs of Cytomic software to help them test with, and if they can't reproduce the issue easily, and they provide me a copy of Reason to test with I can have a look at it.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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