Reason 10.2 is out!

[antic604]

Regardless, I don't buy into the "design the software for my laptop/desktop/etc specs", and Reason was FAR worse at lower resolutions trying to fit multiple fixed-size windows on <1080p displays, playing musical chairs with windows it was a huge pain in the ass for workflow.

Well, for one I personally don't mind switching between areas (sequencer, rack, mixer) as it is very fast and becomes 2nd nature after some time. But - as other DAWs have proven - even on a small screen one can comfortably work with several panels (areas) if screen's resolution and GUI's sharpness are appropriate. I've no problem having sequencer + rack or sequencer + mixer or piano-roll + rack (equivalents) open simultaneously in Bitwig (or Live), because I can make them small but they're very clean & sharp, still being perfectly legible.

The options I have in Reason are huge, sharp & pixelated OR small & blurry, neither of which is good.

Whether you like it or not, people are using laptops to produce music and Props should take that into consideration, for example by adding this option, that is much more elegant solution than your meticulous, manual alignment of separate windows and hiding of redundant elements (2 browsers and transports?) that you probably need to re-do every time because I don't think Reason remembers it...

[EnochLight]

Your picture demonstrates the primary problem very clearly: unless you have bionic eyesight and/or are sitting very close to your 43" panel, everything in your photo is microscopic. You suggesting this is a superior workflow seems odd (though I get that it may work for you).

100% wrong Enoch.

Those icons/txt/etc is the same physical size as any daily computer user would expect -- if anything the size is bigger, since most of you have 24" or smaller 1440p screens. I sit 4' or more away from it especially when playing and see everything perfect.

Like I said - this make work for you, but for others - you are 100% wrong. When I display Reason on my 65" 4K TV, it looks almost exactly like your photo - and I can't read the text - on either the rack devices nor the sequencer, unless I get right up on the screen 2-3 feet away. So I have to app scale, and thus... (please reference my posts from earlier).

Regardless, I don't buy into the "design the software for my laptop/desktop/etc specs",

Well, hopefully you're not developing software, because that's literally a primary component of making good software with a good GUI/UX experience (among other things). If we're being serious, Reason was originally designed when 800 x 600 computer displays were a thing, hardly anyone had a laptop, and the only TV's that existed were all 640 x 480 interlaced (in the US, anyway). Then, Reason's rack literally filled the entire screen - every instrument was occupying almost your entire screen real estate. It was very easy to read text, etc.

and Reason was FAR worse at lower resolutions trying to fit multiple fixed-size windows on <1080p displays, playing musical chairs with windows it was a huge pain in the ass for workflow.

Prior to 6.0 (and Record), it wasn't that difficult at all, but I've worked with dual displays for the better part of 19 years. Once Record/6.0 hit, and we were able to fill racks up horizontally, and the SSL-inspired mixer appeared, that's the moment Reason's fixed resolution starting to become an issue, IMHO.

With the ability (and necessity for everyday tasks anyway) to scale the desktop, you have a moot point. I don't even think most of you would even want the arduous task of constantly popping things bigger and smaller within reason - you'd scale it and be done with it as you do now.

Except for that part where it's not a moot point (please refer to my earlier posts on app scaling).

Do you own Reveal Sound's Spire VST (or any other VST with proper 4K support)? If so, please switch the GUI to its largest mode and display it on your screen, and compare it to Reason's native rack devices. I'll wait...

[Jace-BeOS]

Wow, that picture of Psuper’s screen... I could never work with such a tiny Reason GUI. I sit relatively close at times, I’m not even at 4K yet, and I find Reason intolerably small and/or blurry right now. It’s a shame because it’s otherwise a fun tool to play with.

[EnochLight]

Wow, that picture of Psuper’s screen... I could never work with such a tiny Reason GUI.

Right, and this is the crux of the issue - most people can't. And to app scale via the OS just makes shit blurry. I'm having a difficult time understanding why he doesn't realize this.

[Psuper]

Your picture demonstrates the primary problem very clearly: unless you have bionic eyesight and/or are sitting very close to your 43" panel, everything in your photo is microscopic. You suggesting this is a superior workflow seems odd (though I get that it may work for you).

100% wrong Enoch.

Those icons/txt/etc is the same physical size as any daily computer user would expect -- if anything the size is bigger, since most of you have 24" or smaller 1440p screens. I sit 4' or more away from it especially when playing and see everything perfect.

Like I said - this make work for you, but for others - you are 100% wrong. When I display Reason on my 65" 4K TV, it looks almost exactly like your photo - and I can't read the text - on either the rack devices nor the sequencer, unless I get right up on the screen 2-3 feet away. So I have to app scale, and thus... (please reference my posts from earlier).

Bullshit Enoch. Sometimes you make good points, but these lines are unequivocally false - there's nothing to prove its simply math - go measure an icon height on your desktop, let me know what it is.

I need reading glasses and driving glasses and need neither with this screen, been using PCs since the TI994a on TVs with a switch in the early 80s and progressed every resolution since - I have no less than 6 active monitors in my home not including my 4k tv. 4k on a 43" monitor is insanely easy on the eyes at 100% native scale. I'll say it again - the icons/txt are the same PHYSICAL SIZE as a typical 22"-24"1080p monitor. Do you guys really not understand this?

If you're using a 65"4k and can't read it, shit man you must either have the worse eyes ever, or you aren't using a 4-4-4- chroma display (almost positive you and most others don't have this), cause the physical size at 100% native on a 65" 2k screen is roughly 2x your typical 1080p displays physical size of those same icons/txt.

Yes, Reason on dual displays was the only way to truly enjoy Reason on lower resolutions. So why didn't you all demand Reason scale properly then instead of most of us purchasing 2 displays so it looks nice?

I own many apps, vst and otherwise -- they all look great on my native 4k monitor, I have no need to scale any of them, and I guarantee my eyes are worse than most of yours.

[EnochLight]

Bullshit Enoch. Sometimes you make good points, but these lines are unequivocally false - there's nothing to prove its simply math - go measure an icon height on your desktop, let me know what it is.

Dafuq? Relax, man - just because it works for you but doesn't work for me (and many others) doesn't mean it's bullshit.

I need reading glasses and driving glasses and need neither with this screen, been using PCs since the TI994a on TVs with a switch in the early 80s and progressed every resolution since - I have no less than 6 active monitors in my home not including my 4k tv. 4k on a 43" monitor is insanely easy on the eyes at 100% native scale. I'll say it again - the icons/txt are the same PHYSICAL SIZE as a typical 22"-24"1080p monitor. Do you guys really not understand this?

If you're using a 65"4k and can't read it, shit man you must either have the worse eyes ever, or you aren't using a 4-4-4- chroma display (almost positive you and most others don't have this), cause the physical size at 100% native on a 65" 2k screen is roughly 2x your typical 1080p displays physical size of those same icons/txt.

Dude, I wear bifocals - my eyesight is ass. Even on my dual 26" 1080p's that are literally 2 to 3 feet from my face, I have app-scaling turned up to 125%. When I'm running it on my 65", I sit 5-6 feet back (the panel is mounted on my wall). And that's close, taking into consideration my couch is roughly 10 feet from my panel. And while this setup may be unique to you, many pro studios have larger panels sitting 5-6 feet back behind a monitoring desk. It's not like it's a "special" case. But that's not even addressing the issues others have brought up with laptops or Macbooks with Retina Displays - what you see on your panel is unworkable on those screen!

Yes, Reason on dual displays was the only way to truly enjoy Reason on lower resolutions. So why didn't you all demand Reason scale properly then instead of most of us purchasing 2 displays so it looks nice?

Many of us have.

I own many apps, vst and otherwise -- they all look great on my native 4k monitor, I have no need to scale any of them, and I guarantee my eyes are worse than most of yours.

What you deem as acceptable is not the same for everyone else. I'm not sure why you can't wrap your head around that. It's OK for us to disagree, BTW.

[Psuper]

Bullshit Enoch. Sometimes you make good points, but these lines are unequivocally false - there's nothing to prove its simply math - go measure an icon height on your desktop, let me know what it is.

Dafuq? Relax, man - just because it works for you but doesn't work for me (and many others) doesn't mean it's bullshit.

I need reading glasses and driving glasses and need neither with this screen, been using PCs since the TI994a on TVs with a switch in the early 80s and progressed every resolution since - I have no less than 6 active monitors in my home not including my 4k tv. 4k on a 43" monitor is insanely easy on the eyes at 100% native scale. I'll say it again - the icons/txt are the same PHYSICAL SIZE as a typical 22"-24"1080p monitor. Do you guys really not understand this?

If you're using a 65"4k and can't read it, shit man you must either have the worse eyes ever, or you aren't using a 4-4-4- chroma display (almost positive you and most others don't have this), cause the physical size at 100% native on a 65" 2k screen is roughly 2x your typical 1080p displays physical size of those same icons/txt.

Dude, I wear bifocals - my eyesight is ass. Even on my dual 26" 1080p's that are literally 2 to 3 feet from my face, I have app-scaling turned up to 125%. When I'm running it on my 65", I sit 5-6 feet back (the panel is mounted on my wall). And that's close, taking into consideration my couch is roughly 10 feet from my panel. And while this setup may be unique to you, many pro studios have larger panels sitting 5-6 feet back behind a monitoring desk. It's not like it's a "special" case. But that's not even addressing the issues others have brought up with laptops or Macbooks with Retina Displays - what you see on your panel is unworkable on those screen!

Then you are the exception, the rule is fine for 95% of 4k users - my icon/textsize/gui is the SAME PHYSICAL SIZE as every typical 1080p display the world uses. AKA, not a majority issue.

I'll explain this in laymen terms. Go take 2 seconds to measure your Reason icon height in what you consider a 'comfortable on the eyes' working environment -- should be about 12mm like it would be for 95% of the world:

Here's my physical measurements on 3 different screens:
4k 40" monitor: Reason icon is about 12mm
1440p 27" monitor: Reason icon is about 12mm
1080p 22" monitor: Reason icon is about 12mm

This is a STANDARD working environment for 1440p or lower found pretty much everywhere on any of those 1080p or 1440p screen sizes from most businesses, to gamers, home office, etc. 4k is not the standard in the majority of computer environments -- 1080p is. Most importantly, if you DO want to work at 100% in 4k, you need that Reason icon to be around 12mm physical size, because that's what the vast majority of computer users are comfortable looking at.

Why anyone would want to run 4k at native 100% resolution on a screen <34" is shit for ANY app pretty much, you get ZERO benefit from 4k so no need to try forcing it to work at 100%. Anyone running 4k on a smaller screen has no issue whatsoever running desktop scaling which is why it was designed - for smaller screens.

Yes, Reason on dual displays was the only way to truly enjoy Reason on lower resolutions. So why didn't you all demand Reason scale properly then instead of most of us purchasing 2 displays so it looks nice?

Many of us have.

Not many, and it affected all users. Most simply accepted it due to work around or generally not being bothered by it.

I own many apps, vst and otherwise -- they all look great on my native 4k monitor, I have no need to scale any of them, and I guarantee my eyes are worse than most of yours.

What you deem as acceptable is not the same for everyone else. I'm not sure why you can't wrap your head around that. It's OK for us to disagree, BTW.

What I deem acceptable is the same for most, not everyone. Hence Propellerhead shouldn't waste their time on it.

[EnochLight]

Bullshit Enoch. Sometimes you make good points, but these lines are unequivocally false - there's nothing to prove its simply math - go measure an icon height on your desktop, let me know what it is.

Dafuq? Relax, man - just because it works for you but doesn't work for me (and many others) doesn't mean it's bullshit.

I need reading glasses and driving glasses and need neither with this screen, been using PCs since the TI994a on TVs with a switch in the early 80s and progressed every resolution since - I have no less than 6 active monitors in my home not including my 4k tv. 4k on a 43" monitor is insanely easy on the eyes at 100% native scale. I'll say it again - the icons/txt are the same PHYSICAL SIZE as a typical 22"-24"1080p monitor. Do you guys really not understand this?

If you're using a 65"4k and can't read it, shit man you must either have the worse eyes ever, or you aren't using a 4-4-4- chroma display (almost positive you and most others don't have this), cause the physical size at 100% native on a 65" 2k screen is roughly 2x your typical 1080p displays physical size of those same icons/txt.

Dude, I wear bifocals - my eyesight is ass. Even on my dual 26" 1080p's that are literally 2 to 3 feet from my face, I have app-scaling turned up to 125%. When I'm running it on my 65", I sit 5-6 feet back (the panel is mounted on my wall). And that's close, taking into consideration my couch is roughly 10 feet from my panel. And while this setup may be unique to you, many pro studios have larger panels sitting 5-6 feet back behind a monitoring desk. It's not like it's a "special" case. But that's not even addressing the issues others have brought up with laptops or Macbooks with Retina Displays - what you see on your panel is unworkable on those screen!

Then you are the exception, the rule is fine for 95% of 4k users - my icon/textsize/gui is the SAME PHYSICAL SIZE as every typical 1080p display the world uses. AKA, not a majority issue.

Um... nope. I and virtually every Reasoner on a Mac who owns a 13" 2560-by-1600 res (or 15" 2880-by-1800) MacBook or a 27" 5120‑by‑2880 resolution iMac Pro and is stuck using Reason in low res mode or blurry-ass app scaling it will politely disagree with you.

I'll explain this in laymen terms. Go take 2 seconds to measure your Reason icon height in what you consider a 'comfortable on the eyes' working environment -- should be about 12mm like it would be for 95% of the world:

Here's my physical measurements on 3 different screens:
4k 40" monitor: Reason icon is about 12mm
1440p 27" monitor: Reason icon is about 12mm
1080p 22" monitor: Reason icon is about 12mm

This is a STANDARD working environment for 1440p or lower found pretty much everywhere on any of those 1080p or 1440p screen sizes from most businesses, to gamers, home office, etc. 4k is not the standard in the majority of computer environments -- 1080p is. Most importantly, if you DO want to work at 100% in 4k, you need that Reason icon to be around 12mm physical size, because that's what the vast majority of computer users are comfortable looking at.

Why anyone would want to run 4k at native 100% resolution on a screen <34" is shit for ANY app pretty much, you get ZERO benefit from 4k so no need to try forcing it to work at 100%. Anyone running 4k on a smaller screen has no issue whatsoever running desktop scaling which is why it was designed - for smaller screens.

This has been explained to you already, but it appears you're unable to grasp it. Short of having you sitting next to me in front of a 65" 4K panel, I'm not sure what else there is I can do to demonstrate why your way of working is not how everyone prefers to work, and dare I say - not even most - despite what you would like to believe. So I'll suggest this since I'm assuming you've never seen Reason on the aforementioned Macs mentioned above: step back 2-3 feet more from your 4K display, and tell me that you can easily see all text on the devices and sequencer, and can easily work at that distance. If you can, I'm calling bullshit. Simply put: Reason needs larger 4K options.

Yes, Reason on dual displays was the only way to truly enjoy Reason on lower resolutions. So why didn't you all demand Reason scale properly then instead of most of us purchasing 2 displays so it looks nice?

Many of us have.

Not many, and it affected all users. Most simply accepted it due to work around or generally not being bothered by it.

The data suggests otherwise. There have been countless threads with people complaining about Reason's low resolution rack devices. Putting up with it because we have to =/= as "most simply accepted it/not bothered".

I own many apps, vst and otherwise -- they all look great on my native 4k monitor, I have no need to scale any of them, and I guarantee my eyes are worse than most of yours.

What you deem as acceptable is not the same for everyone else. I'm not sure why you can't wrap your head around that. It's OK for us to disagree, BTW.

What I deem acceptable is the same for most, not everyone. Hence Propellerhead shouldn't waste their time on it.

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit; that's you projecting your own feelings into a subject you feel passionate about, even if those feelings are misplaced.

If what you say is true (Props shouldn't bother), why are all RE's made with 4K assets available - and have been since over 6 years ago? I mean, apparently Propellerhead think it's important for.. I dunno... some reason?

[Psuper]

There's nothing else to say, I stand by my prior statements as they are irrefutable fact despite your attempt to spin otherwise.

Is there some reason you refuse to measure your icons? Because short of us standing next to each other and me showing you precisely how full of shit you are, the PHYSICAL SIZE of icons/txt is the only metric worth discussing in relation to what is acceptable/visible to most in front of their screens.

As for what you are stuck with, well you're stuck with it because you choose it. I chose my stuff too with an array of experience and research that helped me decide what was most important -- couldn't be happier.

[BMoore]

Another example of what Reason needs most of all... Better users.

[EnochLight]

There's nothing else to say, I stand by my prior statements as they are irrefutable fact despite your attempt to spin otherwise.

There's no spin necessary:

If what you say is true (Props shouldn't bother), why are all RE's made with 4K assets available - and have been since over 6 years ago? I mean, apparently Propellerhead think it's important for.. I dunno... some reason?

You really have no answer for that, eh?

Anyway, it's great you're able to work that way and enjoy it without issue. Meanwhile, the rest of us will "put up with it" until proper 4K support is inevitably introduced.

Another example of what Reason needs most of all... Better users.

It's fairly evident that every DAW has its share of users who could be better at what they do.

[Psuper]

Another example of what Reason needs most of all... Better users.

Unfortunately for Propellerhead, many of their "users" have moved on, or at the very least choose an alternative. Whether or not they are "better" by your standards I doubt matters to anyone.

You may not realize this, but Enoc and I often disagree but are always chummy. Is chummy even a word anymore?

[EnochLight]

You may not realize this, but Enoc and I often disagree but are always chummy. Is chummy even a word anymore?

Chummy is absolutely a word, good sir!

[THE INTRANCER]

I find Reason 7's rack to be too small (yes I can read stuff as I have good eyesight, but it is eye straining after 5 - 10 minutes, the screen distance from my head is 3 feet 9" for all my applications. Aspects of Studio One's fonts such as those on the transport bar aren't great either with being tiny and having the PNG pink ghosting effect, but it's minor thing and has been for many years now since developing free GUI overlays for Studio One 3 to deal with that, so really a non issue now. Other aspects of small fonts I don't have any control over other than the main menu because Studio One has no actual font control preferences other than enabling Hi-DPI support which has detrimental effects on screen estate at 1080P.

Before with Reason I've had a 15" & 21" screen (1600x1200 resolution), a 24" screen @ 1920x1200) plus a 24" 1080P LCD, and what I have now is two 1080P screens, one of which is a HDTV/PC designed monitor, that gives me 3840x1080 resolution. 44 inches of physical desktop space they take and obviously independent from one another in height and angle. With Reason from version 4 + Record, using a dual monitor setup was really the best option. Since switching DAW's, I can happily work with a single screen in Studio One without ever feeling the need to use my other screen, which I may very well have a video editing application open to use on along side. Having to consciously switch to different core functional parts in Reason on a single screen was always a bit of a drag.

Another aspect, is that using a big 4K 43" screen is a waste of electricity, screen's are not cheap and their total life span is shorter than that of smaller screens generally... lasting about 3 years v 5 or 6 for a smaller PC screen.

A 24" screen uses about 22 Watts Per Hour, whilst a 43" Screen uses between 90 & 170 Watts per hour depending in what power state it is in.

[BMoore]

I wasn't wrong.