Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
DSmolken
KVRian
1383 posts since 20 Sep, 2013 from Poland

Post Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:15 pm

We've gotten a lot of felted pianos over the past year or two, also more intimate strings, some "worldized" hardware synths and drum machines, and even an oddball hipster guitar (which I'm responsible for). But what is currently trendy in the real-music world and has either not been sampled yet, or has only been sampled in very little detail?

Virtual instruments are probably always going to lag behind real ones when it comes to staying on top of trends, because you can record a part on an instrument in a few minutes, while developing detailed samples takes months at least. It's like painting being theoretically ahead of sculpture and sculpture ahead of architecture, because the time and material investment is less.

In the drum world, I'd say cymbal stacks are an example. Asked a drummer friend if we can record some while doing other stuff, and she was all "nooooo that's bad and damages the cymbal edges" so that was that, but... just happened to be watching a video of Shakira's drummer's tour setup and he said something about cymbal stacks being trendy now so that got me thinking, yeah, they are. There are a few samples out there, but nothing really detailed with round robins and dynamic layers AFAIK.

That's just one pretty random example. What else?

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Michael L
KVRAF
2401 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:42 am

Hurdy gurdy
Quiet accordion pads - Oliveros style
Scat singing
Contemporary vocalising
Single-string guitar
Rock ukelele
Microtonal guitar
Musette-tuned piano
Cimbalom
Pedal steel guitar

DSmolken
KVRian
1383 posts since 20 Sep, 2013 from Poland

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:31 am

Some good ideas! One of the SM Drums guys is working on a pedal steel, so expect that one to be covered soon. I also have a friend who's been talking about sampling his cimbalom for years, and he's been getting more motivated recently - we'll sample it sometime, though the problem with cimbalom is that each note rings for like 60 seconds, so if you want to do several hits on each note, you're gonna be recording for HOURS before you even get into multiple articulations. But he's also making some curved bows for that, to also sample bowed sounds, along these lines...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZwluipcCmg

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Michael L
KVRAF
2401 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:24 pm

Really nice bow design for that cimbalom! Just right for gypsy music...

Here's the most-trendy single-string guitar song; Brushy has albums of his single-string music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8H-67ILaqc
And here was the trendiest rock (actually reggae) ukelele; sadly IZ passed away in 1997 but there are many rising stars!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8498 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:50 pm

Wavelore has had a Pedal Steel Guitar out since forever (and its currently on sale along with their other stuff)

http://www.wavelore.com/products.php?product=WLPS

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CrystalWizard
KVRian
650 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbiti sw usa

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:14 pm

Michael L wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:42 am
Hurdy gurdy
Quiet accordion pads - Oliveros style
Scat singing
Contemporary vocalising
Single-string guitar
Rock ukelele
Microtonal guitar
Musette-tuned piano
Cimbalom
Pedal steel guitar
Nice list.
gadgets an gizmos...make noise
https://soundcloud.com/crystalawareness

I. Lehti
KVRist
68 posts since 9 Sep, 2004 from Toronto

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:38 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:50 pm
Wavelore has had a Pedal Steel Guitar out since forever (and its currently on sale along with their other stuff)

http://www.wavelore.com/products.php?product=WLPS
Few years ago I paid for the pre-order of a new version of Wavelore Pedal Steel, and waited forever, not even a response from the developer. I wasn't the only one. Finally I launched for a complaint via Paypal and got my money back. Don't know what happened to the developer.
Ilk

anomandaris1
KVRist
271 posts since 26 Nov, 2009

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:57 pm

Michael L wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:42 am
Hurdy gurdy
I've seen at least 2 Hurdy gurdy Kontakt instruments over the years.

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Michael L
KVRAF
2401 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:08 pm


DSmolken
KVRian
1383 posts since 20 Sep, 2013 from Poland

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:00 pm

Yeah, Wavelore is long-inactive, sadly.

Ukulele's a pretty good example of what I'm thinking with samples lagging behind the real world. Ample's got a nice uke which I've used before and there are possibly also other detailed ones but not much, while in the real world ukes are everywhere from girls singing at open mics to bank commercials with the cheesy uke + clapping + whistling combo.

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Michael L
KVRAF
2401 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:05 am

Yeah, here's teen flamenco surf ukelele:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4u8n_CjUDY
Even hurdy-gurdy is pushing the envelope:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPGKeMdRU5I

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fmr
KVRAF
7822 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:34 am

DSmolken wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:00 pm
Yeah, Wavelore is long-inactive, sadly.

Ukulele's a pretty good example of what I'm thinking with samples lagging behind the real world. Ample's got a nice uke which I've used before and there are possibly also other detailed ones but not much, while in the real world ukes are everywhere from girls singing at open mics to bank commercials with the cheesy uke + clapping + whistling combo.
Ukulele (or ukelele) is our own cavaquinho, which was brought to Hawai by portuguese sailors. There are many playing techniques, but I never saw our own technique sampled:

here is an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cILU9TpQwxA

Also, there is another unique portuguese instrument that I isn't available sampled anywhere (there was once a portuguese which released a sampled instrument, but that's no longer available. I don't know how trendy this is (or could be) but here it is:

https://youtu.be/emTo6uGWfPU?t=110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO2aTesu3tw

There are two main instruments - the Coimbra guitar and Lisboa Guitar. The first is bigger and has a darker, perhaps more melancholic, sonority (it is also my favorite, because I love Coimbra and its traditions, including Canção de Coimbra - Coimbra Chanson). This is just an example of what the portuguese guitar (in this case the Coimbra guitar) can do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKpHdyLK5wA
Fernando (FMR)

DSmolken
KVRian
1383 posts since 20 Sep, 2013 from Poland

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:29 am

Very interesting. Is Portuguese cavaquinho and its playing techniques very different from Brazilian? I know a Brazilian guy who has a Brazilian one, and with only 4 strings, short sustain and not a ton of frets, it can be sampled in a good amount of detail without needing a ton of recording time. The opposite of the cimbalom, in terms of the number of samples you can get per hour of recording time!

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fmr
KVRAF
7822 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:08 am

DSmolken wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:29 am
Very interesting. Is Portuguese cavaquinho and its playing techniques very different from Brazilian? I know a Brazilian guy who has a Brazilian one, and with only 4 strings, short sustain and not a ton of frets, it can be sampled in a good amount of detail without needing a ton of recording time. The opposite of the cimbalom, in terms of the number of samples you can get per hour of recording time!
Frankly, I'm not aware of the Brazilian one or the technique used. I would risk saying that, being Brazil a former Portuguese colony, the instrument itself may be the same, although the techniques may somehow be evolved separately. Can you point me to some recording or video that I can watch?

I think that, to sample cavaquinho with the technique used by the guy shown in the video (which is a cavaquinho virtuose - that video is just a simple example of what he can do) you would have to concentrate in sampling chords with that "rasgado" up and down technique, and somehow create a script to alternate that. The technique involves playing chords almost like notes.

Here is a sample of his latest album, where he mixes traditional Portuguese music with Cabo Verde's own folk traditions, fado and some modern sonorities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr3RieayJJI
Fernando (FMR)

DSmolken
KVRian
1383 posts since 20 Sep, 2013 from Poland

Re: Sounds trendy in the real world, but not yet in samples

Post Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:23 am

Brazilian cavaquinho IME (which is playing with one Brazilian guy in Poland) is conventionally played with a pick and rhythms were typically similar to samba guitar. Here's a very typical song that I've played a bunch of times. I also remember the long notes at the end of each phrase getting tremolo-picked during the rubato intro, which this guy doesn't do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3X8cFYuDfc

There's someone in Brazil who makes little solidbody electric ones which look like cute baby Les Pauls and Strats. Not terribly relevant to this thread, because I don't think they're trendy (yet), but they are cute.

I also talked to an accordion-playing friend about possibly doing some samples dedicated to quite pads, he thinks that's doable with a few hours of recording. So, maybe I can make some of this stuff happen while it's still trendy.

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