Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
acousticglue
KVRian
569 posts since 27 May, 2008

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:54 pm

Can I hear a difference in $50 reverb and a $170 reverb is the real question. My gear lust doesnt lunge into the end zone any more. I wanted easier presets in Reverberate so I could make new 50 presets in New container easily. No good instructions on the site, no resale of license, no response at all. I will pass due to these lingering issues. I like Reverberate, I just don't understand devs that just throw up hands and say done

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
2800 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:58 pm

simmo75 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:40 pm
[snip] Pluxxus :)
Hey! :party: :dog: :phones:

sevaels
KVRer
22 posts since 17 Jun, 2003

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 pm

I love Liquidsonics and while classy...
though I don't want to offer a blow-by-blow comparison of a competitor product of course as it'll just come across as me saying x y and z is better when it's best for people to decide if they prefer it or not themselves.
the above represents a real problem in the current state of plugin development because it allows less ambitious firms to prey on the steady flow of newcomers with false promises like 'analog warmth'.

Tokyo Dawn, Relab and Balance Mastering are a few off the top of my head that rightfully detail why they believe their products are better than others. Liquisonics is just as amazing and it isn't a bad thing to hit the competition where they're soft if the consumer wins in the end.

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
8323 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:29 pm

I already wrote a long post on gearslutz so I'll be short here:

This thing sounds amazing as a stock basic reverb. I just wish it went much further into interesting territory. Considering how it synthesizes the IR (at least according to the marketing blurb) it could have been infinitely more creative and allow for some truly stunning imaginary vistas and alien worlds. Now it's "just" a relatively flexible reverb (it's not even braking new ground in this area either).

So yeah, a bit underwhelmed as I already have almost every single reverb plugin worth having so what I definitely don't need more of is the oridnary. It's the very reason I bought the UVI Plate as it can be so interesting and truly different.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
8323 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:32 pm

acousticglue wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:54 pm
Can I hear a difference in $50 reverb and a $170 reverb is the real question. My gear lust doesnt lunge into the end zone any more. I wanted easier presets in Reverberate so I could make new 50 presets in New container easily. No good instructions on the site, no resale of license, no response at all. I will pass due to these lingering issues. I like Reverberate, I just don't understand devs that just throw up hands and say done
This is actually good to know. I only have update history experience with Liquidsonic from the Seventh Heaven plugin but that has been updated with minor usability additions and bug fixes. Then again, that product was extremely robust from the get-go.

This product however could be so much more.. yet isn't. And if there is not that much of an updating history, significantly improving and enhancing products then most likely this will not happen for Illusion either. Will have to wait and see.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
2800 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:27 pm

bmanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:29 pm
[snip] This thing sounds amazing as a stock basic reverb. I just wish it went much further into interesting territory. Considering how it synthesizes the IR (at least according to the marketing blurb) it could have been infinitely more creative and allow for some truly stunning imaginary vistas and alien worlds. Now it's "just" a relatively flexible reverb (it's not even braking new ground in this area either). [snip]
Note sure... I am getting some pretty creative reverbs/spaces/textures. But I had to RTFM first and delve into the parameters a with more focus. Illusion is capable of some pretty interesting creative reverbs but I think a good understanding of all the controls and how they work together will be necessary. It's not as straightforward as just adjusting things and hoping like some other reverbs are good with (eg. blackhole). :phones:

Here's an example. 3 tracks each with its own Illusion tuned to a stranger than normal reverb sound:

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/3- ... ns/s-x1KIq
Last edited by plexuss on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Beatworld
KVRist
445 posts since 31 Dec, 2010 from Perth

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:57 pm

acousticglue wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:54 pm
I wanted easier presets in Reverberate so I could make new 50 presets in New container easily. No good instructions on the site, no resale of license, no response at all. I will pass due to these lingering issues. I like Reverberate, I just don't understand devs that just throw up hands and say done
Just so I know we're both on the same page, do you know Reverberate2 has been out for quite some time, is that the version you have?
cheers

User avatar
dangayle
KVRian
811 posts since 30 Mar, 2014

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:56 pm

I've been trying it on some trance type synths, and I gotta say, it's very cool. The synthetic spaces presets work really nicely with a supersaw pluck from Hive. I also put it through its paces as a bit of a techno kick/verb. Might not be everyone's style (very much an acquired taste), but this works really well for that.

Here is the kick verb, first dry, then flipping through some presets. Obviously needs more processing and sculpting, but this is really close for coming straight out of the box:
https://clyp.it/l0fcw1ni

Here is the saw with two different presets. First dry, then soloed reverb, then combined. Adds some subtle interest.
https://clyp.it/wq05mxwo

yellowmix
KVRian
965 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from morf frmo omfr form romf

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:09 pm

I've got many reverbs so not really looking for another but the approach here sounds interesting so I will eventually demo it.

However, it's been exactly three years since Reverberate 2 was released and many buyers are still looking for a way to make our own Fusion-IRs. I know the concept/engine itself is a work in progress (given the changes for Seventh Heaven and probably for Illusion), it's painstaking work to make a musically useful reverb when you're working at a very low level (e.g., tweaking u-he Zrev's individual allpass filters) so there's a balance that must be struck between control and layman workflow. Would like to hear whether this is still in the works or if what we're seeing here is what we'll see moving forward.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
2800 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:18 pm

Another example. This has exagerrated earlies for that cascading tap sound. :phones:

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/1-illusion/s-Eemi4

ghettosynth
KVRAF
11434 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:32 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:09 pm
I've got many reverbs so not really looking for another but the approach here sounds interesting so I will eventually demo it.

However, it's been exactly three years since Reverberate 2 was released and many buyers are still looking for a way to make our own Fusion-IRs. I know the concept/engine itself is a work in progress (given the changes for Seventh Heaven and probably for Illusion), it's painstaking work to make a musically useful reverb when you're working at a very low level (e.g., tweaking u-he Zrev's individual allpass filters) so there's a balance that must be struck between control and layman workflow. Would like to hear whether this is still in the works or if what we're seeing here is what we'll see moving forward.
Obviously I don't "know." However, I doubt that you'll see it. My perception at this point is that these types of products leverage the technology in a more financially successful way. By keeping it proprietary it keeps doors for partnerships open, e.g., slate, as opposed to letting others, particularly smaller indie devs, openly experiment. If Slate could create their own Fusion-IRs of old hardware, would they partner? I don't know, but it seems to me that it would be less likely.

I'm not being critical though, without knowing more, I would think that liquidsonics current approach makes more sense in reaching most customers. Create focused products that hide technical details of advances behind slick user interfaces. Even though I would like to see Reverberate 3, I'm not sure that liquidsonics current approach isn't better business.

woggle
KVRAF
2364 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:24 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:09 pm
I've got many reverbs so not really looking for another but the approach here sounds interesting so I will eventually demo it.

However, it's been exactly three years since Reverberate 2 was released and many buyers are still looking for a way to make our own Fusion-IRs. I know the concept/engine itself is a work in progress (given the changes for Seventh Heaven and probably for Illusion), it's painstaking work to make a musically useful reverb when you're working at a very low level (e.g., tweaking u-he Zrev's individual allpass filters) so there's a balance that must be struck between control and layman workflow. Would like to hear whether this is still in the works or if what we're seeing here is what we'll see moving forward.
Yes - I have been a bit disappointed that more Fusion-IRs did not appear. Or maybe I missed them?

User avatar
ATS
KVRAF
6354 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:34 pm

man I am not sure this market will support $180 for a plugin anymore. Maybe I'm wrong but seems things are getting much cheaper nowadays overall.
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls ~ Pablo Picasso

yellowmix
KVRian
965 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from morf frmo omfr form romf

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:52 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:32 pm
By keeping it proprietary it keeps doors for partnerships open, e.g., slate, as opposed to letting others, particularly smaller indie devs, openly experiment. If Slate could create their own Fusion-IRs of old hardware, would they partner? I don't know, but it seems to me that it would be less likely.
An editor/creator/specification does not necessarily entail that. IIRC, Fusion-IR is proprietary and patented, so even if it were reverse-engineered, could not legally be used by anything other than Reverberate 2 (or 3 or whatever) or licensees (ostensibly the license would limit what Fusion-IRs could be used) until the patent expires. But you do bring up a good point, if random person, for example, makes a PCM90 Fusion-IR library and sells it, then it could cannibalize a partner (or LiquidSonics itself) who wants to do the same.

Anyway, it was a publicly-announced plan and kind of a selling point and if the plans have changed, it would be nice to know one way or another.

From the Sound on Sound review:
All in all, though, at the asking price, Reverberate 2 is an absolute bargain, and will only seem more so when further banks of Fusion-IR presets become available. Matthew plans to make public the details of the file format soon — albeit with the ominous warning that “some familiarity with tools like Matlab/Octave or Python will be required” — so hopefully we’ll see other people joining in the fun too.

woggle
KVRAF
2364 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Illusion - new reverb from LiquidSonics

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:03 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:52 pm
ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:32 pm
By keeping it proprietary it keeps doors for partnerships open, e.g., slate, as opposed to letting others, particularly smaller indie devs, openly experiment. If Slate could create their own Fusion-IRs of old hardware, would they partner? I don't know, but it seems to me that it would be less likely.
An editor/creator/specification does not necessarily entail that. IIRC, Fusion-IR is proprietary and patented, so even if it were reverse-engineered, could not legally be used by anything other than Reverberate 2 (or 3 or whatever) or licensees (ostensibly the license would limit what Fusion-IRs could be used) until the patent expires. But you do bring up a good point, if random person, for example, makes a PCM90 Fusion-IR library and sells it, then it could cannibalize a partner (or LiquidSonics itself) who wants to do the same.

Anyway, it was a publicly-announced plan and kind of a selling point and if the plans have changed, it would be nice to know one way or another.

From the Sound on Sound review:
All in all, though, at the asking price, Reverberate 2 is an absolute bargain, and will only seem more so when further banks of Fusion-IR presets become available. Matthew plans to make public the details of the file format soon — albeit with the ominous warning that “some familiarity with tools like Matlab/Octave or Python will be required” — so hopefully we’ll see other people joining in the fun too.
the prospect of more did influence my purchase

Return to “Effects”