KVR Audio

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:25 pm

Well, it's virtually Hallowe'en - and, in the UK, Fireworks Night - so we might as well have a scary (and potentially incendiary) topic...

I need a second set of studio headphones. My "first" pair are my drumming 'phones, DT-770 Ms, which I really like. For "production" work (which I do on a separate computer now), I've currently got an ancient pair of Technics RP-F350 hi-fi 'phones, which... er... I don't like. (I can understand why I've read "fun sound" attributed to the DT-770s now...)

Now... As I like the DT-770 Ms, which are 80 Ohm and worked fine on my AudioFire 4, I'm wondering what to get... I'm tempted just to get the same again. But should I really go for a flatter response? DT-880 Pros? They're 250 Ohm - will my AF4 drive them? (Little comment as far as I can see, most seemingly positive on that). Should I not go Beyerdynamic at all and succumb to Sennheiser? Or is that "fun sound" just the RP-F350s being accurate, after all?

fluffy_little_something · Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm

Why does it have to be a German brand?

Audio Technica also has some very good phones...

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:58 pm

I think you should go for the same again. Then you know how they behave and how the sound will translate to other systems.

Regarding the tech part: couldn't you just check with the existing phones?

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:26 am

Try to demo in a real shop, side by side with your current fav cans.

I also have a set of DT-770 M, not for drumming but aiding FrontOfHouse mixing. They sound nice but are far from flat. Big hump in the spectrum in low-mids or higher-lows, I guess around 160-200 Hz.

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:57 am

@fls: What?! You mean places outside Germany can do high quality audio engineering? Is that allowed? But seriously, I'm mostly tempted by the Beyers because of the known build and comfort to be honest... (And I know you can keep them going, replacing the padding, as I've just done it - well worth it.)

@SparkySpark: First part, yes - that's my internal argument; I'm used to mixing on my DT-770 Ms... so... keep on doing it? Second part: I wasn't clear, I know the DT-770 Ms will work on both set ups because I got a new drumming set up and moved the DT-770 Ms to that and they're fine (after minor adjustment); the production set up is my old "does everything" machine, which now does everything apart from drumming.

@BK: Once we had a Digital Village on my route to work and I'd have dropped in there. Bell Percussion in Acton don't really cover headphones (isolation cans, yes). Knight Sound and Light in Hanwell do DJ gear and have no real range of studio headphones -- they used to do a wider range, so that's also a bit irritating. Yeah, the DT-770 Ms aren't ideal as "flat" reference headphones - I worked on the basis that if it sounds OK on them, it'll sound OK on most consumer output, which has a similar, if not more pronounced, curve. I also listened to music on them and now don't like listening on the RP-F350s, so I'm thinking I might have been wrong.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:25 am

Oh, forgot to mention: don't get cans with impedance higher than 100 ohm. Unless you'd like to go shopping for a headphone amp as well!

perfumer · Post by **perfumer** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:39 am

The 880s are not flat either. Bass is barely noticeable, highs are over exaggerated. Ideal for listening Italian operas from vinyl, but put on some drum and bass, and it's laughably bad. As in WTF?! bad. Also, the highs easily cause ear fatigue. Also very open and if someone else is in the room, he will listen to what you're listening at roughly the same volume.

I'd second the Audio-Technica recommendation. I have the M50x and using them non-stop for 3-4 years now, while the 880s are in their bag and the bag is in the cupboard - been there ever since i bought the ATs.

woggle · Post by **woggle** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:58 am

I have the Beyer DT250 80ohm. I like them

fluffy_little_something · Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:36 pm

pljones wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:57 am @fls: What?! You mean places outside Germany can do high quality audio engineering? Is that allowed? But seriously, I'm mostly tempted by the Beyers because of the known build and comfort to be honest... (And I know you can keep them going, replacing the padding, as I've just done it - well worth it.)

I got the good old Sennheiser HD 280 Pro (launched in 2003), for which they also offer replacement pads (ears and headband). I already had to replace the headband pad once, but the ear pads are still fine after 7 years. (The ear pads on my AT headphones started to disintegrate after only 2 years.)
Sennheiser have introduced its successor meanwhile, the HD 300 Pro, but it costs twice as much, while its specs are almost the same, so I doubt it is worth it.

Maybe I should buy spare HD 280 Pro's before they are taken off the market, the latest version of it sells for about 100 dollars/euros these days.

Here's a good review:
https://www.worldbolding.com/home/2018/ ... ew-version

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 pm

Oh dear. I just found the DT 790s. I was wondering about getting a headset pair... I think probably I shouldn't, recordings of my voice are better avoided...

@perfumer: Ah, the M50x, yes... I'd actually forgotten to check on the "x" pair, I've been looking at the originals. I hadn't realised how much better the new model performs. (When I original got my 770s, the old M50 was pretty similar, the comfort and isolation on the 770s clinching the deal that time.) Still, I'm not sure if it's my in built perception filter but I seem to be seeing more positive comments around the DT 770s when I search online -- except when talking explicitly about use as a reference pair, when these generally get the thumbs up. So I end up being hesitant, still.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:53 pm

Another happy Audio-Technica M50x user here. They sound so much better than my old Sennheisers (more comfortable too). The last couple of vocalists I worked with loved them.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:37 pm

Hi again,
I just stumbled upon a very new headphone roundup at Music Radar:
https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-bes ... tudio-gear

Hope it can give you some additional advice.

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:29 pm

OK, impedance matching question... Anyone any idea what the AudioFire 4 headphone output impedance actually is..? I'm pretty sure it'll be lower than my new Zoom UAC-2 (33 Ohm), which is driving my existing DT-770 M (80 Ohm) phones... (No, that doesn't give a great "match" but hey, it's not my production set up.) It also seemed to be more powerful (I've had to crank the UAC-2 up to full volume, whereas the AF4 was around half its max).

@SparkySpark... Interesting, thanks (and they also mention the step up from the M50 to M50x being pretty big). I raise the impedance question partly because they're "only" 38 Ohm, unlike my 770s. All the "better" headphones in the review have much higher ratings, too. I'm even wondering if the AudioFire could drive the ATH R70x 470 Ohm phones without adding an amp - the (linked) review doesn't mention one being used. (It doesn't mention anything about the source.)

I had decided, on my way home, that I was going to "just go ahead and buy some DT-770 Pros". Then I started thinking about impedance and now I've gone back to not really having a clear idea at all!

fluffy_little_something · Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:31 pm

They probably used a Hifi amp...

Interesting:

"High-impedance cans usually need more voltage to get up to a solid listening level, so they can benefit from a headphone amp especially with portable players that have limited voltage available from their internal batteries. But very low-impedance cans lower the damping factor between the amp and headphones and actually require more current. So while low-impedance headphones may be loud enough from a portable device, sound quality can be significantly improved by adding a headphone amp."

https://www.headphone.com/pages/do-my-h ... dphone-amp

And some numbers:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/hea ... ained.html

Headphones