Modulating Keys?

[supriseitsathrowaway]

It's a pretty basic concept. You go from one key to another key. Whether it be closely related or otherwise. However, it's not actually as simple as playing two different chords in two separate keys in secession.

For example, you can't just go straight from the one of C Major to the one of F# Major, it's jarring it doesn't sound right.

My question what are some things you could do to smooth out transitions like this?

[herodotus]

My question what are some things you could do to smooth out transitions like this?

One popular technique is common chord modulation. For instance, a G major chord is the tonic of the key of G major, the dominant of the key of C major, the subdominant of the key of D major, the mediant of the key of E minor, and the submediant of the key of B minor. Therefore one can use a G major chord as a smooth modulation bridge to or from any of the above mentioned keys.

[jancivil]

Well, there are known devices but the success of these depends on more than just the harmonic devices or what-have-you in themselves.

And it depends on what the overall climate is, what kind of music are we even talking about and so forth.

In itself you're looking for 1) commonality of harmonies; which if you want to get that far a distance (around the 'cycle') would be taken from a deceptive and probably secondary cadential device. What is a dominant of F# which can easily occur without suddenly signaling we are way out of C. Devices in a very staid sort of classical format will include diminished and particularly diminished seventh chords.
EG: E#º7 = Fº7; = Dº7; = Bº7. So vii7 of C minor is already vii7 of F# minor, naturally. And borrowing a vii from parallel minor is not a very outside kind of move.

The success again relies on the musicality of it, do you have a line which sells the move; and the harmonic rhythm (the timing of changes, basically), et cetera.

and 2a) things such as pedal tones and 2b) pivot tones.
But the essence of the former is chord tones which are *pedaled*, ie., held while other harmonies are introduced during it making the chord tone a non-chord tone. And we can shift or sneak into a new area; perhaps blurring the boundaries.

C7; Bb pedal... Bb is enharmonically the major third to F#...

So we can look for pivot points from nearer keys to C than F# is. Pivot points is a pretty well-known trick.
So here's another term for the Google machine.


In the jazz lingo the flat five substitution principle automatically makes the b5 key relationship or the #4 key relationship available simply through flatting the 5th in the nominative or operative dominant 7th chord. This works primarily in tonicizing chords in a song which aren't tonics to a key. We'd have to get into examples which I'm not driven to write up at the moment.

I did go into where the changes from Coltrane's Giant Steps derive in another thread here, and how that related to a standard by Rogers and Hart. That's not the flat five sub. thing, it's substituting a major 3rd away; and given that major 3rds are part of common currency is not exactly the greatest stretch in the world (cf., Rogers and Hart, again).

I would say that the two devices here resemble one another a bit since both the "Dom. 7" b5 construction and the dim. 7th contain a diminished fifth.

The 7b5 construct also resembles the Tristan Chord, so-called, from Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Albeit that doesn't modulate, it does introduce something which seems like it came from elsewhere (Debussy loved this, but Debussy hadn't happened yet) with a simple chromatic change (well, two, ultimately):

We're in A minor. iv6 (Dm in first inversion) is F A D. 'Augment' the 6th: F to D#. The 'German' sixth looks like F A C D# enharmonically F A C Eb, an F7. But the French does an aug 4, B. And the A at the top doesn't happen immediately, it's a G#. So now we have this harmony which is identical in sonority to Fø7 (Fm7b5). Only it's a secondary dominant to E7, V7 of our key, A minor. The success of this move hinges on another simple device in the top line: G# A A# B. The first two over our French 6th, the next two over our V7, E7.

Then he does some things in resemblance to this. This is a good point of reference, this composition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-qoaioG2UA
It's the first thing to happen here.


So there's two areas of music which are both goal-oriented, harmonic music but from a different POV and a different sound; which seek to move, to modulate to new tonics.

[someone called simon]

This has always been one of my favourite things which I got interested in when I became besotted with Genesis around the "trick of the tail" period. There are heaps of examples in that kind of music. Their next album 'the lamb lies down on broadway' opens with the title track, which has exactly the type of transition you mentioned. the vocal line comes in on a Bb chord, there is one transition chord, then verse kicks off in E. it's an unusual transition, but it doesn't sound blunt or unsubtle. The transition chord is B11, which happens about 37 seconds in.
https://youtu.be/5pteh5hdZlg?t=37

also, it may be a bit of a cheap trick but diminished 7 chords can do the job easily.
C to Bdim7 (possibly moving the bass note to G# or F) to F#

[jancivil]

What you can do or 'get away with' depends totally on context. I have no information about that in the OP.

I almost just went into my usual quasi-rant.
I don't know why C to F# is a problem necessarily; but it's kind of a noob question so I went into normal or cheap tricks. I don't personally write music like that for a long, long time so I'm driving on fumes here.

[someone called simon]

I don't have the theory or musical knowledge to do that more-in-depth thing. But one my major musical interests was definitely that period of Genesis music when they were doing heaps of that. There was something about the change in feel in a song with subtle but unexpected key changes. It's obviously pretty limited in scope compared to something like the Tristan chord sequence, which I have stumble upon despite having only a cursory knowledge of classical music.

But that sort of thing always catches my ear, perhaps more so when it's in a popular format.

One of my favourite key changes in a popular song is 'still crazy after all these years' by Paul Simon, where it goes into the bridge from the key of G, with a G7 sounding like it's heading to C, but instead goes to A maj7, with the melody on the G#, "4 in the morning..." and the line contains a D#, so it's actually transitioned to E from the G7. And then quickly and strangely to F#, to Em, and back to G.

https://youtu.be/Zo1naJEacE8?t=74

[jancivil]

The Wagner is pretty old stuff. I mainly like to bring it in because it's more or less the b5 substitution principle, F7b5 as V of V.

It would be great if you could figure out that whole bit in Lamb Lies Down, I'm not gonna. That's very sophisticated.

[someone called simon]

Well, apart from the intricate piano solo at the beginning, which alternates between Em, E7, a few times, then more or less F#/E, then a big sweeping Em thing up the keyboard, back to Em, E7 a couple of times, then what I guess I'd call E6 b5 (no F# in it this time) then the whole band comes in on an Eb, going to Ebm7, then the vocal begins... 'and the lamb, lies down' which is

Bb to B11 (or B7 sus4, it's hard to hear the details). In this bit the lead vocal is Bb to B, and the harmony above it is F to E, then it's into the main bit of the song, which is in E.

It's just an E chord being played, though the bass riff is C# A E E, which give a suggestion of A to E I suppose. The chords in that verse section are E, G#m, A, G#m, A E, then a transition chord E b5 back into the Eb section which is...

Eb, to Ebm7, to Bb, to B11, and off it goes again into E ...

[IncarnateX]

One popular technique is common chord modulation. For instance, a G major chord is the tonic of the key of G major, the dominant of the key of C major, the subdominant of the key of D major, the mediant of the key of E minor, and the submediant of the key of B minor. Therefore one can use a G major chord as a smooth modulation bridge to or from any of the above mentioned keys.

Very simple and to the core way of putting it. Think I am going to steal it and pretend it is my own on another occasion. I might change the example to another key, so no one will notice.

[Melkor]

Am - F - Dm - Esus4 E - A7 - Dm - G - C - Bb - G#dim7 - Am - Am

[vladimirvlutin]

Interesting stuff what would you guys recommend as best starting place to learn basic key modulation? Any tips/eli5 sources?

[musiclover91]

Well, there are known devices but the success of these depends on more than just the harmonic devices or what-have-you in themselves.

And it depends on what the overall climate is, what kind of music are we even talking about and so forth.

In itself you're looking for 1) commonality of harmonies; which if you want to get that far a distance (around the 'cycle') would be taken from a deceptive and probably secondary cadential device. What is a dominant of F# which can easily occur without suddenly signaling we are way out of C. Devices in a very staid sort of classical format will include diminished and particularly diminished seventh chords.
EG: E#º7 = Fº7; = Dº7; = Bº7. So vii7 of C minor is already vii7 of F# minor, naturally. And borrowing a vii from parallel minor is not a very outside kind of move.

The success again relies on the musicality of it, do you have a line which sells the move; and the harmonic rhythm (the timing of changes, basically), et cetera.

and 2a) things such as pedal tones and 2b) pivot tones.
But the essence of the former is chord tones which are *pedaled*, ie., held while other harmonies are introduced during it making the chord tone a non-chord tone. And we can shift or sneak into a new area; perhaps blurring the boundaries.

C7; Bb pedal... Bb is enharmonically the major third to F#...

So we can look for pivot points from nearer keys to C than F# is. Pivot points is a pretty well-known trick.
So here's another term for the Google machine.


In the jazz lingo the flat five substitution principle automatically makes the b5 key relationship or the #4 key relationship available simply through flatting the 5th in the nominative or operative dominant 7th chord. This works primarily in tonicizing chords in a song which aren't tonics to a key. We'd have to get into examples which I'm not driven to write up at the moment.

I did go into where the changes from Coltrane's Giant Steps derive in another thread here, and how that related to a standard by Rogers and Hart. That's not the flat five sub. thing, it's substituting a major 3rd away; and given that major 3rds are part of common currency is not exactly the greatest stretch in the world (cf., Rogers and Hart, again).

I would say that the two devices here resemble one another a bit since both the "Dom. 7" b5 construction and the dim. 7th contain a diminished fifth.

The 7b5 construct also resembles the Tristan Chord, so-called, from Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Albeit that doesn't modulate, it does introduce something which seems like it came from elsewhere (Debussy loved this, but Debussy hadn't happened yet) with a simple chromatic change (well, two, ultimately):

We're in A minor. iv6 (Dm in first inversion) is F A D. 'Augment' the 6th: F to D#. The 'German' sixth looks like F A C D# enharmonically F A C Eb, an F7. But the French does an aug 4, B. And the A at the top doesn't happen immediately, it's a G#. So now we have this harmony which is identical in sonority to Fø7 (Fm7b5). Only it's a secondary dominant to E7, V7 of our key, A minor. The success of this move hinges on another simple device in the top line: G# A A# B. The first two over our French 6th, the next two over our V7, E7.

Then he does some things in resemblance to this. This is a good point of reference, this composition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-qoaioG2UA
It's the first thing to happen here.


So there's two areas of music which are both goal-oriented, harmonic music but from a different POV and a different sound; which seek to move, to modulate to new tonics.

Was looking through the internet for modulation tips and you really helped!:) Thanks bro:)