Roland Cloud Plugins - how to manage presets without Program Change?

[Caroozo]

Hi,

I'd like to use plugins from Roland Cloud for my event band. The problem is - all plugins don't use PC for changing presets! I contacted with Roland and they responded that this is on their wishlist, but implementation of this fundamental function is out of the picture for now ... The one and only way for doing so is to click on a tinny button or use mouse (very lame ).

I use Reaper as my VST-Host, but I'm thinking about something more live-oriented. I have 2 laptops with i5 CPU (Lenovo L440 with 4300M and 8GB RAM and HP 2170p with 3427U and 8 GB RAM), and on the both of them (2C/4R) when I run idle more than 3 "heavy" plugins like Jupiter , CPU overload. Turning them off of course helps, but that's pain in the... nose to change presets in live situations.

The one solution I've thinked about is to run dedicated, live-oriented VST Host, where I can setup Live Sets for bunch of instances of - for example - Jupiter 8, with different patches open, and changing the preset in Live Set automatically switch to instance with the right preset, while turning-off the previous one. I'll only use 2 plugins at once mostly, so the performance of 4300M/3427U should be enough, but I need the right solution ASAP . Thanks in advance!

[No_Use]

In Reaper you can link presets to PC:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=138805

(I don't know the Roland cloud plugins, so not sure if that helps here.)

[Caroozo]

Thanks for an answer, but I'm afraid it's not quite the right solution for my problem. Roland Cloud plugins don't use presets at all, there's no way to change them through PC, so the only solution is to use snapshots of already open instances of VSTi. Luckily, Roland use VSTi 2.4 and VST 3, the later being (theoretically) "transparent" as there's no CPU use if such plugin is idle. Anyone know the right solution?

[EvilDragon]

Here's what you do in Reaper.

1. Save all the presets you want to switch between for a particular synth as Reaper presets ("+" button in FX window, Save as). Doesn't matter if Roland's plugins don't use VST presets, this is not about VST presets at all. Reaper can store every plugin's state in its own preset format. This is what we use here.
2. Click the "+" button in the FX window again, and then choose "Link to MIDI program change" over the channel you want.
3. Done!

It's essentially what No_Use already said/linked to, but perhaps that link contained too much text for you?

[Caroozo]

EvilDragon, I read it carefully 2 times - and I wrote that it's not the exact solution I need. I wrote about getting DEDICATED VST-Host for live use, which will handle the problem I've got with Roland's plugins. Many thanks for giving me solution in Reaper - it'll come handy, but I'm afraid Reaper has no dedicated Live Set funcionality out-of-the-box. Or am I wrong? I tried once with 3rd party plugins but didn't get the results I've got with Live Professor.

I just want to use mega-stable, reliable VST-Host, where I can set up 2-3 VSTi with exact presets I need for a song (for example CP70 from Keyscape layered with pad from RD700GX, D-50 Voices from D50 plugin for Against All Odds cover) and store it as single "snapshot" - and for that hosts like LiveProfessor were good ("were", as LiveProfessor became unstable for me). But another story is when I use piano from my RD700GX and want to switch presets from Jupiter 8 plugin remotely without changing the scene (for example - when I play jazz standard and want to improvise and to select "that lead on the end of the list" - using mouse in live situation is... well, unreliable and lame ;P.

So ideally - a way to change presets through separate MIDI channel inside one VSTi (as I do on "normal" synth) AND having "snapshot" funcionality. Windows only. I know there are many live hosts (Cantabile, Usine, Blue Cat's Patchwork etc) but I need one, simple, reliable solution (even Reaper on carefully optimised system isn't perfect). Thanks for any advice!

[Caroozo]

Here's what you do in Reaper.

1. Save all the presets you want to switch between for a particular synth as Reaper presets ("+" button in FX window, Save as). Doesn't matter if Roland's plugins don't use VST presets, this is not about VST presets at all. Reaper can store every plugin's state in its own preset format. This is what we use here.
2. Click the "+" button in the FX window again, and then choose "Link to MIDI program change" over the channel you want.
3. Done!

It matters if I use VST 2.4 or VST 3 version of plugin? As I don't have access right now to Reaper, can You tell me if those Reaper presets can be exported? I work on 3 different systems (desktop Intel Quad for pro work, L440 for everything, HP 2170p only for live gigs) and if I can make custom preset lists for the plugins I use without killing performance (on mid-range i5!), and I can share them between systems, it'll save me a lot of time, money and trouble .

[EvilDragon]

It doesn't matter if it's VST2 or VST3. It will work.

Reaper can definitely be used for live performance - it IS very stable and reliable... see SWS extensions Live Configs. Here's usage example from one forum user:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=139465

There are important notes at the end of that post regarding how certain Reaper prefs should be set up.

[Caroozo]

Yeah, I tried SWS extensions 2 years ago, but the tutorial is quite old and even author wrote it's not perfect. Using all those extensions etc is a bit overkill for my needs. All I need is one, SIMPLE, elegant solution. I don't route through zillions of presets, sidechains, video etc - just a couple of presets from several plugins on old i5 notebook. If Reaper presets will work for me, it's easier for me to memorize all the presets and just change them through different channels - as in good ol' days with my Roland A80 and rack with JV1080, EX8000, MKS-20 and so on, when one needed to remember everything. I want to focus on music, set up everything once and just play .

[EvilDragon]

You can certainly just load multiple instances of the plugins onto individual tracks and set them to respond to different MIDI channels, if your needs are really not that complex. That should work in pretty much any host. But yeah in this case you should probably use VST3 versions.

[Caroozo]

For this kind of workflow, I have to open one instance of VSTi, 'cause CPU hogs like Jupiter 8 aren't as friendly as Synth1 to the CPU - 3 or more Jup8 and boom - CPU skyrocket to 100%. All I need to do is to change remotely presets from Roland synths, which don't respond to ANY PC MIDI messages.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah Roland's plugins are quite badly coded. Even VST3 versions don't seem to employ the facility to not run DSP when no MIDI data is sent to the plugin (which is one of the main features of VST3)... kinda ridiculous really.

This is why I said... use Reaper presets. Then you can have one instance of the plugin, on one MIDI channel, and then you can switch between the presets by sending program changes from your MIDI controller. I have that set up here and it works perfectly fine!

[EvilDragon]

Oh and I forgot to respond to your previous question.

Yes, Reaper presets can be exported to .rpl file, and imported to another Reaper installation on a different machine. It just works.

[Caroozo]

Oh man, so You know exactly what I'm after . Yeah, Roland plugins sound awesome (I had once JX-3P, D50, Juno 106, JV-1080 so I know those sounds very well) - for studio use it's ok, but for live... meh. As You wrote, even VST 3 process sound even if they are not used - I have to turn them of by clicking FX, but that's no-go in live situation.

Okay, so I'll try save those Reaper presets and if it'll work, I'll be very happy . Ability to save presets is also very nice!

[Caroozo]

And one last question - it is possible in Reaper to change several presets of several different VSTi with one hot-key or some CC message through MIDI Learn? Some kind of macro? For example, I play Spyro Gyra's Morning Dance, where there's Steel Drums on beginning, piano for verses and layered piano/pad for choruses + lead for solo. I know I can make snapshot in live-oriented DAWs, but maybe there's an option to call MIDI string using Reaper presets to call for example:
1) Steel Drum from M1 on channel 1 (preset 001)
2) Keyscape Piano C7 on channel 2 (preset 002) changeable with piano+pad (preset 003)
3) System-1 Lead on channel 3 (preset 004)

Sometimes we have like 5 seconds to change track - "hey, we play now... mhm.... MORNING DANCE!" - sheets turning like there's no tomorrow, drummer starting to play and everyone waiting for piano man to change the sounds . In good old days, I just pushed remembered programs' numbers on-the-go and was ready; using Live Professor was breeze because of Shapshot function, but to recall presets at once AND change them individually on the go will be everything I'm after. Maybe it's possible?

[EvilDragon]

See this is why Live Configs are useful, you can totally do this with them. You can also probably use JS FX to convert the MIDI message of your choice to whatever you want. You will probably want for all your tracks that have plugins to have MIDI input listening on ONE MIDI channel, but later remap that to whatever channel you want the VST to respond to and block others. This is all possible with JS FX. Feel free to post on Reaper forums for specifics.