Promo Bitwig of 100 $

[Zexila]

Hahaha

[JoeCat]

I own the Push 2 and it's remarkably well designed, but yeah - it is really limited to a certain compositional workflow. The goal of the design - to enable you to truly work without the mouse / keyboard / monitor for most of your time - is admirable but you really are locked into that workflow. You can watch videos of people doing quality work quickly with the Push, IF they stay within those bounds.

The new line of Novation controllers, with screens accompanying knob pairs and rows of pads for clip launch as well as performance, look like a pretty good compromise for providing feedback but keeping to a more traditional control scheme. Like the previous Launchkeys it ties in well with Live but I think it can be scripted to work with any hos - would be a good fit with Bitwig because of the similarities to Live's Session view. I don't know what "hooks" are available for controllers - Live may have put a lot of effort into the Push and Push 2 but that I think that's an open API.

I love Live but I'd be on board with giving Bitwig a go as a fun alternate if they had a mid-priced solution with 16 tracks, etc., as suggested. Not sure I'd love the upgrade scheme (Live is slow but IMHO they do provide a lot of valuable updates between releases). I think the competition is good and want Bitwig to succeed but they seem stuck a bit in that business cycle where you don't have the volume to drop prices enough and still support your dev team, but you need more aggressive pricing to attract new customers.

[pdxindy]

I think the competition is good and want Bitwig to succeed but they seem stuck a bit in that business cycle where you don't have the volume to drop prices enough and still support your dev team, but you need more aggressive pricing to attract new customers.

I think Bitwig is growing well... I see it talked about a lot more than 2 years ago. When there are various informal polls, Bitwig does better than it used to. And the Bitwig forum has a steady flow of new users showing up to ask questions.

So I would say that new customers are being attracted at the current regular price ($399).

[EnGee]

Well, I didn't get Bitwig through the special sale, but I got version 2.3 from the 2nd hand market I even didn't wait for my Cubase to be sold and the reason was:

I tried the demo of version 2.3 (the one I was intended to buy) and I was in shock! The nanoKontrol 2 has a great integration! Ok, some are not working probably (maybe i need to change the configuration of nanoKontrol from Live to Cubase or others), but the "cycle" button works as a switch between the mixer and device modes! Things are not perfect, but nearly amazing!

I will be waiting for my license now and might upgrade to the latest version when I sell Cubase Let's the civil war starts in my system between Live and Bitwig

[v1o]

Still expensive for what it is. Also what is this upgrade plan? You won't be abe to even get bug fixes after a year, even though it might still be the same version number, or is it only for future upgrades(?)?

You keep whatever minor version you get at the end of the 1-year period (let's say version 2.4). You'll also get bug fixes for that minor version even if they are released after the 1-year period (meaning you get all the 2.4.x versions afterwards, but not the 2.5.x or higher).

That pricing scheme is the worst of both worlds. They should just give users two clear options; a subscription scheme which is reasonably cheap and a perpetual licence that offers you updates until the next major release.

[poonna]

Still expensive for what it is. Also what is this upgrade plan? You won't be abe to even get bug fixes after a year, even though it might still be the same version number, or is it only for future upgrades(?)?

You keep whatever minor version you get at the end of the 1-year period (let's say version 2.4). You'll also get bug fixes for that minor version even if they are released after the 1-year period (meaning you get all the 2.4.x versions afterwards, but not the 2.5.x or higher).

That pricing scheme is the worst of both worlds. They should just give users two clear options; a subscription scheme which is reasonably cheap and a perpetual licence that offers you updates until the next major release.

Well, those options would not align with their way of development. In this current scheme, there's no longer a major release anymore. Every release is as major or as minor as any other. 2.4->2.5 is as major or as minor as 2.9->3.0. They release new features as soon as those features are ready. They don't withhold any features until a major release (since there's no major release in this scheme). They said this will allow them to release features quickly and get more immediate feedbacks.

If you believe in what they promise, you cannot buy a perpetual license that offers you updates until the next major release as there's no major release.

And the current scheme gives you a perpetual license anyway. If at the end of your year, you are at 2.5, you get all the 2.5.x even after your year expires.

Actually, that's why I think using release numbering is better than using version numbering. Instead of saying 2.4, 2.5, or 3.0, which will make people think in term of major or minor releases, they should use R4, R5, R6, ..., R9, ..., R180, whatever. There will be no more discussions about major or minor with such numbering.

All this might make you think I keep defending Bitwig's scheme. I think the update price is expensive, too, especially when converted to my currency. I just want everyone to be on the same page before taking the discussion further. That's all.

[pdxindy]

You keep whatever minor version you get at the end of the 1-year period (let's say version 2.4). You'll also get bug fixes for that minor version even if they are released after the 1-year period (meaning you get all the 2.4.x versions afterwards, but not the 2.5.x or higher).

That pricing scheme is the worst of both worlds. They should just give users two clear options; a subscription scheme which is reasonably cheap and a perpetual licence that offers you updates until the next major release.

With the usual model, When a company has a new feature ready they don't release it. They collect such features over a year or two and when there are enough to make a big paid upgrade, then they release it.

With Bitwig, they can release features when they are ready. Because there is no need to make a big paid upgrade, stuff can come out when it's ready. I find it makes the company more agile too.

With the usual model, the big paid upgrade is cumbersome. There is a lot involved with functionality, timing, marketing, customer support. Once that upgrade comes along the company is usually busy. I rarely see much willingness at that point to adjust this or that features in some way based on user feedback. So the company is very busy right when users are having initial feedback on the new stuff. I've never really seen that work well.

Because each individual Bitwig upgrade is smaller, doesn't have a whole marketing push to get people to upgrade etc., Bitwig has more time and flexibility to take user feedback. There have been significant changes to new functionality after release based on user feedback. From my observation, it is working better in that regard.

Mostly people who criticize the model are focused on the cost and most of the discussion revolves around cost... but I think it is working better and is more agile.

So yes, I like the current approach, think it is working better from a development standpoint and want to see it play out for a couple more years.

[ThomasHelzle]

All those numbering schemes are just in your head. It does not make any difference in reality. Like a price of 99.99$ is basically exactly the same as 100.00$ and just suggests to your brain that it is cheaper. Works, but I see it as a bug in our "brain OS" actually.

And don't take yourself too serious. Just because you think it's "hard" to understand that BWS 2.3 to 2.4 is as major as Cubase 8 to 9 doesn't make it hard for everybody.
Same for the price - if BWS is your main DAW and makes you creative, the price is just fine.

All the users who are happily using Bitwig in their studios, having no technical issues and being just fine with the price and update scheme may simply not bother to post on KVR all the time.
So what you see here is not a general outcry but just a handful of people who don't agree. You do not have the statistical evidence if it works or not, you just assume something.
Don in support will have that evidence since he is getting all the feedback from everybody and also the sales department will know exactly if it works or not. We want BWS to succeed and get better and they need the funds to do that.

I would agree with pdxindy that overall the growth of Bitwig is pretty amazing if you think how saturated the DAW market is and that even some old players were discontinued.

All of that does not mean that it may be for you, but that is as true for every other DAW out there as for BWS.
I personally can no longer enjoy Live, Cubase, Cakewalk or most other DAWs since I use BWS, it's just too close to what is perfect for me.
YMMV.

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

All the users who are happily using Bitwig in their studios, having no technical issues and being just fine with the price and update scheme may simply not bother to post on KVR all the time.

Tom

Most of em don't even have a KVR account...

[THE INTRANCER]

Bitwig don't do half price BF sales do they ?

[EnGee]

No they don't.

Today I have received my license, but not sure which last version I'm going to have. It's 2.3 so I guess I can install the one just before the 2.4 version, which is fine for now.

I have spent yesterday between the 2.3 demo and Live 9 Standard. There are noticeable differences and they keep growing. The workflow and shortcuts are not the same although there are still similarities especially in the main idea.

I liked v. 2.3 much more than 1.x.x which I had but sold it. I can't say the same about Live because I like v9 more than v10. Version 9 has clearer colours and fonts on my 32" 1080p screen. Maybe version 10 looks better on 4k screen? I don't know. Still I slightly prefer Live 9 as my main DAW, but let's see after a fair time of use.

Anyway, Bitwig can be more traditional DAW than Live and the pricing is OK for the full version IMO. Usually it's cheaper in the 2nd hand market. Now, for the update plan, it seems ok with the discount ($139 I think instead of $169). Ideal price for me is $199 for the DAW and $99 for the annually upgrade price (when discounted), but the discounted prices are still OK IMO, so no complaints from me.

Ok, going to register my copy and download all that extra. Waiting for the nektar LX25+ to integrate it with

[Late_Bloomer]

@ EnGee - Interesting coincidence: I also prefer Live 9's look over version 10. That's one of the main reasons I made a switch to Bitwig. Live 10 started to remind me of Studio One too much; not in a good way. Studio One's arrangement view makes my eyes bleed (I actually demoed Studio One 4 just to see if the changes they've made to the GUI from previous version would sway me towards updating, but I couldn't justify it even at a discounted price, so I'll just stick to 3.6)

I had a similar situation with Cubase (I own 9.5 Pro). I waited to see what Cubase 10 would offer before renewing my annual plan with Bitwig. After reading and watching numerous reviews, I didn't feel like Cubase's new additions would really benefit my workflow. Especially considering that they've increased update price from $49 to $99. I might give the demo a run once it'll become available.

In the end, I'm glad that I've finally settled on Bitwig as my primary DAW. It has definitely grown on me. Plus having Push 2 is like icing on the cake.

[mesfigas]

for some weird reason bitwig dont sound good with my positive grid destop bias FX pluggin
any DAW sounds decent
bitwig sounds strange

[EnGee]

@ Late_Bloomer:
Good to hear about your experience with Bitwig, so Push 2 integrates well with Bitwig? I thought of Maschine in the future, but not sure really as I keep changing my mind between it and Push 2. Anyway, I need first to activate Bitwig 2 as I have error logging, although I see the serial registered in my profile! It might be because I have Bitwig 8-Track as well, and it is with newer version registered? I don't know. I wrote to their support however.

I sold Cubase 9.5 Pro, although to be honest it run great without any problem at all! But, I'm more now in the Live/Bitwig workflow and this was the main reason I thought to sell it (also I don't want any dongle or aggressive protection services running in the background all the times!).

I found Bitwig colours and contrast great. Yes, much better than Studio One, which will be my choice if I return to traditional DAWs. For now, Live 9 is my choice because I'm slightly faster and more comfortable with its environment, but that doesn't make Bitwig a far second! It might be my first choice depending on how productive I'll be with

[Late_Bloomer]

@ Late_Bloomer:
Good to hear about your experience with Bitwig, so Push 2 integrates well with Bitwig? I thought of Maschine in the future, but not sure really as I keep changing my mind between it and Push 2. Anyway, I need first to activate Bitwig 2 as I have error logging, although I see the serial registered in my profile! It might be because I have Bitwig 8-Track as well, and it is with newer version registered? I don't know. I wrote to their support however.

I sold Cubase 9.5 Pro, although to be honest it run great without any problem at all! But, I'm more now in the Live/Bitwig workflow and this was the main reason I thought to sell it (also I don't want any dongle or aggressive protection services running in the background all the times!).

I found Bitwig colours and contrast great. Yes, much better than Studio One, which will be my choice if I return to traditional DAWs. For now, Live 9 is my choice because I'm slightly faster and more comfortable with its environment, but that doesn't make Bitwig a far second! It might be my first choice depending on how productive I'll be with

Yes, Push 2 works pretty well with Bitwig. I definitely don't feel like I need to have another controller or MIDI keyboard. As far as Maschine goes, unfortunately, I do not have any experience with it.

Not sure why you're having issues activating Bitwig if you can see your serial registered in your profile. I'm certain support will sort it out though.

I decided to hold on to my Cubase license for the time being. I have to keep eLicenser anyway since I have a Nexus license on there.

Bitwig and Live are too similar in order for me to feel any noticeable difference in the speed of workflow. However, I do greatly prefer Bitwig's session view to Live's. It's more flexible. And overall DAW experience, for me, is much more pleasant in Bitwig. I feel more productive in it. This is the conclusion I came to after going back and forth between these two DAWs in the past couple of years.

Hopefully you'll find your permanent home soon as well