Some questions for Mastering engineers !

[jancivil]

Ok, if you literally can't hear it, you probably need some advisement. I'm saying, and others are telling you this is a MIXING question. Mastering doesn't enter into it unless you simply find that more amenable in terms of finding an individual to do the job.

BUT ! If the mastering engineer is doing stems mastering, he just have to cut the highs on the cymbals stem, and everything is okay, right ?

Don't know why you think this is not mixing. If the person you want to pay is a mastering engineer, far be it from me to persuade you as to what to do with your money.

[jancivil]

I'm not 'arguing semantics off topic'
This is supposed to be a kind of heads-up

Ok, if you literally can't hear it, you probably need some advisement. I'm saying, and others are telling you this is a MIXING question. Mastering doesn't enter into it unless you simply find that more amenable in terms of finding an individual to do the job.

I agree with you.

Let say a cymbal is harsh in the mix, but the vocals are okay.

If the Mastering Engineer cut the highs on the cymbals, it will affect the vocals, the snare, etc. too.

Not to insult you, but you appear rather a noob to be throwing money at basic problems, unless of course you have a lot of money to throw away, in which case you're good for the economy and spend away, please do.

One should be sorting out the harshness of cymbals apart from the vocals, by sorting I mean literally dealing with the things separately in the channels in a mixer the things reside in, prior to mastering. Mastering is not about substitution of basic mix considerations.

As to the familiarity of this, it occurs to me (not being at all good with remembering names, let alone internet handles) you're the same guy that's always seeing validation for mixing/etc with hearing loss.

[ClassicTrance]

I'm not 'arguing semantics off topic'
This is supposed to be a kind of heads-up

Ok, if you literally can't hear it, you probably need some advisement. I'm saying, and others are telling you this is a MIXING question. Mastering doesn't enter into it unless you simply find that more amenable in terms of finding an individual to do the job.

I agree with you.

Let say a cymbal is harsh in the mix, but the vocals are okay.

If the Mastering Engineer cut the highs on the cymbals, it will affect the vocals, the snare, etc. too.

Not to insult you, but you appear rather a noob to be throwing money at basic problems, unless of course you have a lot of money to throw away, in which case you're good for the economy and spend away, please do.

One should be sorting out the harshness of cymbals apart from the vocals, by sorting I mean literally dealing with the things separately in the channels in a mixer the things reside in, prior to mastering. Mastering is not about substitution of basic mix considerations.

As to the familiarity of this, it occurs to me (not being at all good with remembering names, let alone internet handles) you're the same guy that's always seeing validation for mixing/etc with hearing loss.

Yes I am a noob, but I want to be sure I can progress and have good results.

Sorry, my english is bad also.


Listen : I want to be sure that my mixes are sounding good at the final.

My hearing loss make me not really able to judge the high frequencies. Of course there is way to compensate, but at the END I want someone to confirm that my mixes are the best it can be.


For this reason, I know that some mastering engineer do stem mastering. Some of them are also mixing engineer, and my idea was the following :

Could I ask a mastering engineer, assuming he also mix and is okay for that, to get my stems, in order to finalize my mixes BEFORE he master ?


This way, I could make my own music, producing, and create it the way I want, while I would have a kind of assistant to handle the frequencies that are a problem for me.


This is just a question, I want to know if it would be accurate. I know that some engineers mix or even master with hearing loss, but I don't have their experience, and it would be so much easier with someone checking and correcting my high end.




But I understood that what I am asking is finalizing the mix + Mastering, not just mastering.



Is there anything wrong with that or no ?

[BertKoor]

Is it a good idea? Consider this scenario:

You make a rough mix and you send the stems (already processed by you) to another engineer. He decides: too much highs in stem track X, too little in Y. He makes a bunch of corrections and sends it all back to you.

Now what are you going to do? Suppose you find X and Y are both too loud for your taste in the mix. Turn them down by a few dB ofcourse, it's you that does the mixing before you send it off for mastering again. But you have no way of telling whether the balance between X and Y in the most upper frequency range still is fine.

The optimum would be if someone else was sitting with you in the room while you do the mixing. Or find some tools to assist you. Pitching down tracks by an octave so you can hear it, looking at the spectrum of both individual tracks and the whole mix to figure out whether in theory the mix is balanced. Just work on it.

Oh, and stop questioning yourself and asking for validation of your own ideas. You have to believe you can do it yourself.

[ClassicTrance]

Bertkoor, I agree with the compensation tools etc.


But I don't agree with yout first sentence.
Basically, if X and Y are too LOUD for me even after a Professional engineer worked on it, there is 2 solutions :

1. The mixer is shitty, and probably not even a real one (There is many scams on the internet)


2. It is my hearing that cause the problem


A Professional engineer would handle it without problem if he is serious.

I don't know where Is the issue with my way of processing.

Again, I have nothing agains't You, I Just don't understand in what giving the stems is a bad idea.


I still do my mix, and do use tools like spectrum analyzer.

However, I need a engineer to handle the high end (checking + correcting) to be on the safe side.

[ClassicTrance]

I just contacted a REAL mastering engineer with phone, and he answered me that while a stereo mastering would not be good to correct any EQ issues (for the obvious reason), a stem mastering would be totally okay for that kind of problems.
So I am going to work with him (110 euros a mastering).

I wonder if you are Mastering engineers, you guys who said it was a bad idea here.

[jancivil]

But I understood that what I am asking is finalizing the mix + Mastering, not just mastering.

Is there anything wrong with that or no ?

Yeah, exactly what I'm saying, sorting cymbals from vocals is_not_ "finalizing", that's basic. Your understanding is mistaken at a basic level.

"those who are saying it's a bad idea": I said spend the money if you like to; just that you're talking about a basic mix scenario and repeatedly insisting - to surely more experienced people than you - that it's Mastering, capital M Mastering.
Sure, someone is going to take your money and of course the customer is right.

SO: your question doesn't _even_ require a "Mastering engineer". But believe whatever, I'm done with you. Should have seen it coming.

[ClassicTrance]

But I understood that what I am asking is finalizing the mix + Mastering, not just mastering.

Is there anything wrong with that or no ?

Yeah, exactly what I'm saying, sorting cymbals from vocals is_not_ "finalizing", that's basic. Your understanding is mistaken at a basic level.

"those who are saying it's a bad idea": I said spend the money if you like to; just that you're talking about a basic mix scenario and repeatedly insisting - to surely more experienced people than you - that it's Mastering, capital M Mastering.
Sure, someone is going to take your money and of course the customer is right.

SO: your question doesn't _even_ require a "Mastering engineer". But believe whatever, I'm done with you. Should have seen it coming.

You don't understand me... Have you read that I have hearing loss on the very high frequencies ?

In that case, in order to be in the safe side, having a Mastering engineer working on the stems IS a good choice.

Now, if I was able to hear perfectly up to 16khz, I would never ask an engineer to do that.

[Hink]

I just contacted a REAL mastering engineer with phone, and he answered me that while a stereo mastering would not be good to correct any EQ issues (for the obvious reason), a stem mastering would be totally okay for that kind of problems.
So I am going to work with him (110 euros a mastering).

I wonder if you are Mastering engineers, you guys who said it was a bad idea here.

good then the issue is resolved so we can lock this not to revisit it again in a month or two?

[imrae]

I just contacted a REAL mastering engineer with phone, and he answered me that while a stereo mastering would not be good to correct any EQ issues (for the obvious reason), a stem mastering would be totally okay for that kind of problems.
So I am going to work with him (110 euros a mastering).

I wonder if you are Mastering engineers, you guys who said it was a bad idea here.

I'll happily tell you it's a good idea in exchange for 110 Euros


But in seriousness if that's what it takes for you to have confidence in the results then that's ok. They should definitely be able to sort it out from there.

[BertKoor]

Ok, so there's a physical mixer with many channels of audio and EQ & compression on each channel. Say you make an initial mix. Then I take over and make some corrections you cannot hear. You see me twisting some knobs but it sounds the same to you.
Would you then dare to touch a knob afterwards? Why?

What is true?
1. I made it really sound much better
2. I may have made it sound somewhat different, but "better" is subjective and depends on taste
3. I twisted knobs on silent channels, back and forth, there is no difference

[dark water]

Ok, so there's a physical mixer with many channels of audio and EQ & compression on each channel. Say you make an initial mix. Then I take over and make some corrections you cannot hear. You see me twisting some knobs but it sounds the same to you.
Would you then dare to touch a knob afterwards? Why?

What is true?
1. I made it really sound much better
2. I may have made it sound somewhat different, but "better" is subjective and depends on taste
3. I twisted knobs on silent channels, back and forth, there is no difference

I realize that yours is a hypothetical point, but in fairness the OP has high frequency hearing problems, his original question is a fair one (and he is happy to pay the money), and TBH he doesn't need the 3rd degree about this.

To answer your scenario directly:
You pays your money, you takes your chance on a mastering engineer being professional and competent.
Of course, you should select your mastering engineer wisely on reputation and experience.
But equally, if a mastering engineer (you in your hypothetical scenario) is just going to piss around for the hell of it, they won't be in this game for long.

There is nothing to stop a customer asking an ME to clarify what changes he made. Likewise, there is nothing to stop a customer (particularly with hearing issues) asking his friends etc, or even in a public forum of musicians such as this, the real differences made between his own mix and that of an ME who is just taking the piss.
If some ME wants to screw over a customer by making negligible or negative changes, then they face the prospect of name and shame.

I believe the OP is able to choose a reasonably competent and professional ME for the task.
Likewise, I believe that he will be very interested to know the differences between his mix and that of the ME, if only so he can then get further insight into his own hearing issues and how they affect his mixing.

This thread is surely finished now, as the OP has reached his conclusion.

[BertKoor]

There are multiple process steps (ingredients if you like) for a piece of music:

1. the idea - composition of the song & arrangement
2. the performance & sound design
3. the mixing
4. the mastering

Each step in the process cannot polish the turd produced by the step before it.

If you like doing steps 1 & 2 but have problems with 3 & 4 for whatever reason, by all means get assistance. If it still is a turd, at least you know who to blame

[ClassicTrance]

There are multiple process steps (ingredients if you like) for a piece of music:

1. the idea - composition of the song & arrangement
2. the performance & sound design
3. the mixing
4. the mastering

Each step in the process cannot polish the turd produced by the step before it.

If you like doing steps 1 & 2 but have problems with 3 & 4 for whatever reason, by all means get assistance. If it still is a turd, at least you know who to blame

That is exaclty what I am doing. I am going to send also the unprocessed (not EQed) stems of the cymbals to make it even easier to fine tune.

It is an additional work made by the mastering engineer BEFORE the mastering. I pay more for That.
I agree with You all That correcting the high frequencies mixing and not mastering.

But as long as he has access to the stems, where Is the problem ?

[BertKoor]

Answering a PM:

As I am creating my own sounds, I may put too much high end on a sound. Let say I create a supersaw, if I put too much high end on the sound, could the mixing engineer correct it ?

I mean, if there is some inconsistencies on some sounds, can the engineer make it good as long as it is a dry record (I mean unprocessed)

You are again asking for an approval, confirmation of something you know the answer to if you use a tiny bit of common sense.

Just for fun I tell you the answer is no