What is it about Sylenth1 ?

[BONES]

I tried it and it seems to work for me here with just the LFO controlling the cutoff. I didn't have to use two mod slots.

Try doing it with an envelope. To be fair, I tried it out a long, long time ago so it might have been fixed but it put me off pretty much instantly and there were no big positives to make me want to put up with it. And since then so many much better synths have landed in the same price range, I just can't see why anyone would bother now.

[BONES]

Regarding Bones' comparison, many of those synths go beyond subtractive so you are comparing apples to oranges.

No, I am looking at what I can get for $180. How similar or different they are is largely irrelevant because they can all do what Sylenth 1 does plus, as you point out, a whole lot more.

Thorn is not even the subtractive/analog type if I am not mistaken.

Thorn has two multi-mode filters with around 20 types to choose from. It also allows cross-modulation of its oscillators. It is very much a subtractive synth, it just uses something a bit different to generate it's oscillator waveforms.

Others such as Dune and Massive have wavetables, while I don't consider their subtractive/analog sound superior to S1's.

Then you have ears of cloth. I never use the wavetables in DUNE but they are there for those who want them. In any event, do you know for a fact that S1 doesn't use wavetables for its oscillators? I'd agree that Massive probably doesn't sound any better than S1 for the narrow range of things S1 can do but you spend the money for all the other things it can do that S1 can't.

Sure, Legend and Repro sound better, not least thanks to the superior effects, but at the same time they are more limited.

In what way? I'd say they are a pretty good match for S1.

And for many people including me CPU load is still an important aspect.

I'd be very surprised if either DUNE 2 or Legend used more CPU than S1.

Yes, PWM, ring mod and such things are missing. Of course people who need that won't be happy with S1. But many people don't need those things.

Anyone who knows what the f#@k they are doing needs PWM at a minimum. Even the most basic freeware has it.

I am outright allergic to harsh sounds, so I don't even use such modulations when they are available.

What the hell has that got to do with anything? Go and try the Thorn demo and tell me where the harshness is in that. You can put it in there if you want it but Thorn is mostly silky smooth and runs rings around S1 for $50 less (at full price).

Whether it sounds analog or not, who cares. It can sound similar to many of the 80's sounds I still like, whatever synths they were made with originally, I don't know, maybe even a DX7

I don't care about any of that, I never want a synth to sound like another synth, especially not some ancient piece of garbage from the 70s or 80s. I honestly can't imagine anything worse. The synths I use all sound like today, or maybe even tomorrow or the day after.

[Russell Grand]

I'm guessing it's because of the sound and workflow / ease of use. Personally I prefer u-he Hive, though I do get why people like Sylenth1.

Really? I don't, not at all. There is nothing special about the sound and it is quite poorly made. I've demoed it a few times and on each occasion it has left me flat. Why anyone would choose to spend that much money on it when there are at least a dozen better synths in the same price range is totally beyond my comprehension.

What's not to like?

1. The sound - I don't hate it but there are plenty of others I like a lot more.

2 . The way it's made - e.g. If you want to modulate the filter cutoff from fully closed to fully open, you need to apply the modulation in two separate Mod Matrix slots because you don't get the range to do it in one. That's terrible product design/engineering.

3. Price - it probably costs twice what it's worth. Realistically, it could probably compete with things like discoDSP's Discovery or ReFX's Vanguard, although I'd probably still prefer either of them to it. But nobody in their right mind would suggest it can hold a candle to the likes of DUNE or The Legend or Diva or RePro or Massive or Thorn or Synthmaster or Predator or anything else in it's price range.

Are three things enough?

And 99% of people outside of KVR who actually make music couldn't give a toss about Reaktor.

I think that would apply far more to Sylenth 1 than to Reaktor, if for no other reason than you don't have to know how to use Reaktor to use Reaktor - there are amazing ensembles you can buy like TRK-01, which is a way better synth than Sylenth 1. You can also buy Reaktor from actual bricks and mortar shops and it's made by a company absolutely everyone in the industry knows and trusts. After all, it's part of Komplete and you can't possibly believe that more people in the industry own Sylenth 1 than NI Komplete, can you?

Different strokes, different folks? Besides, as I said, I prefer Hive. I have Hive, I don't have Sylenth1, so that should tell you which one I prefer. I agree with your assessment of the Sylenth1, but I'll repeat that I do get why people like it.

[BONES]

It's a synth, it should be able to do what any of us want it to, shouldn't it? Other $180 synths can certainly cater to a broad spectrum of genres and styles so maybe that's another thing to add to the list?

[fluffy_little_something]

It's a synth, it should be able to do what any of us want it to, shouldn't it? Other $180 synths can certainly cater to a broad spectrum of genres and styles so maybe that's another thing to add to the list?

Um, no, it shouldn't. If a plugin had to be able to do what any of us want it to, it would have to be the perfect synth doing everything and anything. That would be the death of the industry.
Pricing doesn't have anything to do with it. Some developers live in cheaper countries and cities than others, for instance.

[fluffy_little_something]

Regarding Bones' comparison, many of those synths go beyond subtractive so you are comparing apples to oranges.

No, I am looking at what I can get for $180. How similar or different they are is largely irrelevant because they can all do what Sylenth 1 does plus, as you point out, a whole lot more.

Thorn is not even the subtractive/analog type if I am not mistaken.

Thorn has two multi-mode filters with around 20 types to choose from. It also allows cross-modulation of its oscillators. It is very much a subtractive synth, it just uses something a bit different to generate it's oscillator waveforms.

Others such as Dune and Massive have wavetables, while I don't consider their subtractive/analog sound superior to S1's.

Then you have ears of cloth. I never use the wavetables in DUNE but they are there for those who want them. In any event, do you know for a fact that S1 doesn't use wavetables for its oscillators? I'd agree that Massive probably doesn't sound any better than S1 for the narrow range of things S1 can do but you spend the money for all the other things it can do that S1 can't.

Sure, Legend and Repro sound better, not least thanks to the superior effects, but at the same time they are more limited.

In what way? I'd say they are a pretty good match for S1.

And for many people including me CPU load is still an important aspect.

I'd be very surprised if either DUNE 2 or Legend used more CPU than S1.

Yes, PWM, ring mod and such things are missing. Of course people who need that won't be happy with S1. But many people don't need those things.

Anyone who knows what the f#@k they are doing needs PWM at a minimum. Even the most basic freeware has it.

I am outright allergic to harsh sounds, so I don't even use such modulations when they are available.

What the hell has that got to do with anything? Go and try the Thorn demo and tell me where the harshness is in that. You can put it in there if you want it but Thorn is mostly silky smooth and runs rings around S1 for $50 less (at full price).

Whether it sounds analog or not, who cares. It can sound similar to many of the 80's sounds I still like, whatever synths they were made with originally, I don't know, maybe even a DX7

I don't care about any of that, I never want a synth to sound like another synth, especially not some ancient piece of garbage from the 70s or 80s. I honestly can't imagine anything worse. The synths I use all sound like today, or maybe even tomorrow or the day after.

For me other aspects are more important than how many features I get for a given price. The S1 GUI is simply the best for me in terms of visibility, operation etc. That is critical for me, way more important than wavetables, PWM etc.

Yes, Thorn has filters, hence it is subtractive, but it is not the analog type. It doesn't sound like an analog synth to me.

S1, Hive etc. do use a similar system for the generation of their waveforms, forgot the name, but it was not wavetable. Wavemap?!

Well, Legend and Repro have only two envelopes for instance. Since I use pitch envelopes a lot, that is a serious limitation for me. Plus, S1 basically has two synths thanks to two layers. So I can create the attack on one layer and the rest on the other layer.

Dune and Legend definitely use more CPU than S1. I know all three synths, although I never owned Dune and Legend. The demo versions certainly use just as much CPU as the full versions

No, I never need PWM. Just because you like it and need it, doesn't mean everyone else likes and needs it.

Again, I don't use leads, so what would I need ring modulation for? To me xmod, ring mod, fm etc. always sounds harsher than the absence of such modulation.

So, you think the DX7 or analog synths from the 70s and 80s were garbage?
But I see why we disagree so much. You want to sound like the present and future, while I want to sound like the past

[wagtunes]

It's a synth, it should be able to do what any of us want it to, shouldn't it? Other $180 synths can certainly cater to a broad spectrum of genres and styles so maybe that's another thing to add to the list?

Um, no, it shouldn't. If a plugin had to be able to do what any of us want it to, it would have to be the perfect synth doing everything and anything. That would be the death of the industry.
Pricing doesn't have anything to do with it. Some developers live in cheaper countries and cities than others, for instance.

That may be true but ultimately the consumer isn't going to spend $150 on a synth if there is another synth that does exactly what the $150 synth can do AND more and can get that synth for $120. I know I wouldn't. What would be the point? If I can get basically the same sounds out of synth Y that I can out of synth X PLUS get even more, why would I pay for the more expensive synth?

Someday, and I don't know when, when technology so vastly warps what Sylenth1 can do and do it better and do it cheaper, LD is going to go out of business unless he either vastly improves his synth or lowers the price.

And if you think that can't happen, look at all the companies in the offline world that went out of business because they couldn't compete. Sears, which was a staple here in the US, as a prime example.

Eventually, something has to give.

[chk071]

Unfortunately, Lennard doesn't seem to have ambitions to take Sylenth1 to the "next level", so to speak. Things I could imagine for a possible version 2 would be better analog modeled filters (ZDF), more filter types, more waveforms, more LFO's, more envelopes, more comprehensive mod matrix etc. If the upgrade price would be right, I'd surely get it.

[DPhil]

That may be true but ultimately the consumer isn't going to spend $150 on a synth if there is another synth that does exactly what the $150 synth can do AND more and can get that synth for $120. I know I wouldn't. What would be the point? If I can get basically the same sounds out of synth Y that I can out of synth X PLUS get even more, why would I pay for the more expensive synth?

For exmaple because there's the massive amount of already available soundsets for synth Y. Or because the workflow is better than in synth X. Maybe it's also more stable and less heavy on CPU. I could think of reasons though

[fluffy_little_something]

Unfortunately, Lennard doesn't seem to have ambitions to take Sylenth1 to the "next level", so to speak. Things I could imagine for a possible version 2 would be better analog modeled filters (ZDF), more filter types, more waveforms, more LFO's, more envelopes, more comprehensive mod matrix etc. If the upgrade price would be right, I'd surely get it.

Why would he do that when there are already lots of synths with more features out there? He could not even charge more (there is a certain ceiling of $200 or so), it would not be worth the effort for him. If I remember correctly he said in his forum that he rewrote the entire code for v3.x. But didn't get anything in return for all that work.

[fluffy_little_something]

It's a synth, it should be able to do what any of us want it to, shouldn't it? Other $180 synths can certainly cater to a broad spectrum of genres and styles so maybe that's another thing to add to the list?

Um, no, it shouldn't. If a plugin had to be able to do what any of us want it to, it would have to be the perfect synth doing everything and anything. That would be the death of the industry.
Pricing doesn't have anything to do with it. Some developers live in cheaper countries and cities than others, for instance.

That may be true but ultimately the consumer isn't going to spend $150 on a synth if there is another synth that does exactly what the $150 synth can do AND more and can get that synth for $120. I know I wouldn't. What would be the point? If I can get basically the same sounds out of synth Y that I can out of synth X PLUS get even more, why would I pay for the more expensive synth?

Someday, and I don't know when, when technology so vastly warps what Sylenth1 can do and do it better and do it cheaper, LD is going to go out of business unless he either vastly improves his synth or lowers the price.

And if you think that can't happen, look at all the companies in the offline world that went out of business because they couldn't compete. Sears, which was a staple here in the US, as a prime example.

Eventually, something has to give.

Well, it's already been around for more than a decade, which is an eternity in the plugin world. And people are still buying it.
I am much more worried about the future of discoDSP and a few other developers, who even have to make a living from their plugins, unlike LD.

[pdxindy]

Someday, and I don't know when, when technology so vastly warps what Sylenth1 can do and do it better and do it cheaper, LD is going to go out of business unless he either vastly improves his synth or lowers the price.

And if you think that can't happen, look at all the companies in the offline world that went out of business because they couldn't compete. Sears, which was a staple here in the US, as a prime example.

Eventually, something has to give.

LD may not go out of business because he does not depend on Sylenth for food.

As for the synth itself, some years back, in the EDM producer scene, Sylenth was talked about constantly. These days, not so much. And now it is spoken about as a venerable grandfather, not a young hottie... when that happens, you know your days are numbered

[chk071]

Lennard needs to create a new young hottie. Bring on Sylenth2.

[pdxindy]

If I remember correctly he said in his forum that he rewrote the entire code for v3.x. But didn't get anything in return for all that work.

Of course he didn't get a return. The industry has advanced a whole lot while Sylenth is the same limited (both in features and sound quality) synth it has always been. A bunch of other synths have far surpassed it in both sound quality, functionality and in creative sound design tools and user interface. It is already irrelevant and on its way to being a footnote.

[chk071]

Well, it's still a thing in EDM genres. I agree though, it has been surpassed in any regard. Except for CPU usage.