FXpansion releases Cypher2

[xanthos]

Tried the demo.
VST Scanning times in Cubase >1 minutes
Loading the actual vst >1minutes
UNloading the VST >1minute.

This cant be serious by Fxpansion in 2018?
Or is it my PCs fault? But I never experienced such behaviour by any other VST!

[Whywhy]

Loading time in bitwig and reaper: fast.

[Kamikaze Coda]

Demo loads in seconds for me on Sonar and HP laptop

[EvilDragon]

Sounds like antivirus might be enabled so it scans every file on load?

[xanthos]

sadly not EvilDragon...
its a common issue Fxpansion Support said.
Hope they can fix it in the next release they said...

[BassMasterK]

himalaya, I had a quick question for you. I listened to your patches for Cypher 2 and they are flat out amazing. I was curious if you played much with sound design with Equator and how you felt about it in comparison (I understand apples and oranges but curious as to your thoughts on Equator)? I have only spent a few hours with Cypher 2 and it has been a struggle. Your patches are inspiring for sure. Something about the layout of Equator and how it works, I just find easier to deal with.

[himalaya]

himalaya, I had a quick question for you. I listened to your patches for Cypher 2 and they are flat out amazing. I was curious if you played much with sound design with Equator and how you felt about it in comparison (I understand apples and oranges but curious as to your thoughts on Equator)? I have only spent a few hours with Cypher 2 and it has been a struggle. Your patches are inspiring for sure. Something about the layout of Equator and how it works, I just find easier to deal with.

Thank you for the compliment about the Cypher2 patches.

Have I played with Equator? Yes I have. You could say that Equator is my baby, and I have been with it since the first line of code (literally). I remember testing the very first thing that we created in Equator: the oscillator. Great memories...anyway.

You say that Equator is easier, and I’d say so as well. It’s much easier to use, but equally it’s a much simpler design, a much simpler synthesis engine and modulation system.

Personally I think the main complexity in Cypher2 stems from the sheer amount of parameters exposed on one page. So If I could provide some advice it would be to familiarise yourself with the main synthesis page, just to absorb all the features, which are largely based on standard analogue stuff. There are some advanced features, or dual-functionality build into some parameters and stuff relating to signal routing which can be complex to understand, so reading the manual would help enormously (please watch all the Cypher2 videos from Rozzer). But once you are accustomed to the huge amount of ‘stuff’ you will be able to ‘fly’ around it very fast. Or so I hope!

In terms of Equator’s mod system and Cypher’s mod system...they are the same. That is, at the most basic point of interaction Equator uses the same principles: select a mod source (eg: LFO) and then ‘paint’ a modulation amount around any and every knob on the GUI.
While doing so, while adding that modulation amount, it is also very easy and quick to adjust the main value of the knob: just move the mouse pointer to the middle of the knob/fader cap. So both synths have the same, underlying modulation interaction, which I have to say with all sincerity, is what allows me to make huge amounts of patches very quickly. (And so both Equator and Cypher2 have many, many patches from me.)

Where Cypher2 brings a fat layer of complexity is in the (again) sheer amount of modulation sources. I think Rozzer has tried to count all of them and he came up with 140 mod sources! That is a crazy amount of modulation sources. So just this fact can be overwhelming. But again, once you become familiar with at least a dozen of them (or some of the differences like LFO+ vs LFO-+), it will allow you to make patches with greater ease.
Cypher2 offers two methods of selecting mod sources, the original method as seen in Cypher1 and a brand new design which allows to do it via the main visualiser window. Check out the manual.

Then, the init patch is set up in such a way that you can do a lot of patches without even worring about having to select new mod sources.

Then, when we look at Equator, in contrast it eschews this complexity and flexibility of modulation source availability and selection and presents you with a select few mod sources all hardwired and always visible on the GUI: envelopes, LFOs, and the five Dimensions, each one with 4 master expression curves.
This is the fundamental difference I feel, and it makes Equator immediately more easy to understand and use, but at the same time, Equator can not accomplish many of the modulation tricks which push Cypher2 into a whole other world of synthetic timbres, which I was hoping some of the audio examples posted a few pages back, would show.

However, despite Cypher’s much more advanced mod system and many more options here, Equator is still unrivalled when it comes to 5D/MPE, or more specifically, how it allows to use 4 multi-node expression curves in each dimension: Strike, Glide, Slide, Press, Release. These expression curves are better than Cypher’s. But then, to counter that Cypher2 allows to modulate one dimension by another, which in turn allows to balance the multidimensional modulation much better, and this is something that Equator can not do (yet).

So at least when it comes to MPE, Equator has expression curves which are more flexible, but Cypher2 has an extra layer of control here (multiplication of dimensions) despite having only one expression curve for each dimension.

It’s all a bit complex to explain, but hopefully those into 5D sound design may get a better understanding of the benefits of each synth. And I mention 5D/MPE, because Equator was designed as a 5D synth from the ground up (and in addition its mod system is bi-polar which makes it much easier to use than Cypher. In order to get this bi-polar response, we would need to use the Maths modules in Cypher2 - another huge feature but one that needs study to understand well).

I think, with some artistic licesne, it would not be wrong to describe Cypher2 as an uber modular synth. If looked at from this angle, it may become easier to work with. (Of course, technically, Cypher2 is not a modular synth as we understand the term, but since it has a totally open modulation system where anything can be patched to everything else, in multiple ways, it has the same freedom of interaction as a modular synth).

Now, as a bit of trivia, a lot of the simplicity of Equator also comes from the fact that Equator had to run on Linux on the DSP engine in Seaboard Grand. Equator is also a real hardware design, which means that there was a CPU limit to what we could do with the feature set in Equator.

So, to conclude, take your time with Cypher2, because it really is a monster of a synth. Totally unique.
We can go from the lushest of analogue timbres through aggressive FM/wave-shaping madness, to delicate and supremely expressive sounds that often have this hybrid, physical modelling aura around them.

Often, what I like the most are some of the hybrid patches in Cypher2. When combined with the Seaboard RISE they become absolutely real and alive. A film composers dream come true.

Long post, sorry for that!

[yemski]

No way of programming your own scales here? That would be a really useful addition...

Agreed.

...you could have modulation sources like lfos control pitch, set by the quantisation of whatever the sequence was set to. So if I sent a sine wave lfo to pitch I would get a rising and falling scale, of whatever scale I'd quantised to in the sequencer...

This is already possible. Just leave the note sequencer on a single note and automate the Pitch parameter in the Sequencer Matrix. Select whatever key/scale you want.

I'm afraid you misunderstood me. It didn't help that I didn't explain myself very well. Cutting to the chase, what I was referring to was having a sort of quantise module in Cypher 2, rather like you would in a modular system. You could implement this function via the transmod system with the quantise of sequencer being the global quantisation at that particular moment. So that any modulation source, lfos, curves, noise sources, maths functions, envelopes, ramps, etc, sent via the quantise would be constrained by whatever pitch set or scale you wished to use. That's basically what I meant. I was kind of tired and the time, so it got explained in a less direct sort of arse backwards way.

[BassMasterK]

himalaya, I had a quick question for you. I listened to your patches for Cypher 2 and they are flat out amazing. I was curious if you played much with sound design with Equator and how you felt about it in comparison (I understand apples and oranges but curious as to your thoughts on Equator)? I have only spent a few hours with Cypher 2 and it has been a struggle. Your patches are inspiring for sure. Something about the layout of Equator and how it works, I just find easier to deal with.

Thank you for the compliment about the Cypher2 patches.

Have I played with Equator? Yes I have. You could say that Equator is my baby, and I have been with it since the first line of code (literally). I remember testing the very first thing that we created in Equator: the oscillator. Great memories...anyway.

You say that Equator is easier, and I’d say so as well. It’s much easier to use, but equally it’s a much simpler design, a much simpler synthesis engine and modulation system.

Personally I think the main complexity in Cypher2 stems from the sheer amount of parameters exposed on one page. So If I could provide some advice it would be to familiarise yourself with the main synthesis page, just to absorb all the features, which are largely based on standard analogue stuff. There are some advanced features, or dual-functionality build into some parameters and stuff relating to signal routing which can be complex to understand, so reading the manual would help enormously (please watch all the Cypher2 videos from Rozzer). But once you are accustomed to the huge amount of ‘stuff’ you will be able to ‘fly’ around it very fast. Or so I hope!

In terms of Equator’s mod system and Cypher’s mod system...they are the same. That is, at the most basic point of interaction Equator uses the same principles: select a mod source (eg: LFO) and then ‘paint’ a modulation amount around any and every knob on the GUI.
While doing so, while adding that modulation amount, it is also very easy and quick to adjust the main value of the knob: just move the mouse pointer to the middle of the knob/fader cap. So both synths have the same, underlying modulation interaction, which I have to say with all sincerity, is what allows me to make huge amounts of patches very quickly. (And so both Equator and Cypher2 have many, many patches from me.)

Where Cypher2 brings a fat layer of complexity is in the (again) sheer amount of modulation sources. I think Rozzer has tried to count all of them and he came up with 140 mod sources! That is a crazy amount of modulation sources. So just this fact can be overwhelming. But again, once you become familiar with at least a dozen of them (or some of the differences like LFO+ vs LFO-+), it will allow you to make patches with greater ease.
Cypher2 offers two methods of selecting mod sources, the original method as seen in Cypher1 and a brand new design which allows to do it via the main visualiser window. Check out the manual.

Then, the init patch is set up in such a way that you can do a lot of patches without even worring about having to select new mod sources.

Then, when we look at Equator, in contrast it eschews this complexity and flexibility of modulation source availability and selection and presents you with a select few mod sources all hardwired and always visible on the GUI: envelopes, LFOs, and the five Dimensions, each one with 4 master expression curves.
This is the fundamental difference I feel, and it makes Equator immediately more easy to understand and use, but at the same time, Equator can not accomplish many of the modulation tricks which push Cypher2 into a whole other world of synthetic timbres, which I was hoping some of the audio examples posted a few pages back, would show.

However, despite Cypher’s much more advanced mod system and many more options here, Equator is still unrivalled when it comes to 5D/MPE, or more specifically, how it allows to use 4 multi-node expression curves in each dimension: Strike, Glide, Slide, Press, Release. These expression curves are better than Cypher’s. But then, to counter that Cypher2 allows to modulate one dimension by another, which in turn allows to balance the multidimensional modulation much better, and this is something that Equator can not do (yet).

So at least when it comes to MPE, Equator has expression curves which are more flexible, but Cypher2 has an extra layer of control here (multiplication of dimensions) despite having only one expression curve for each dimension.

It’s all a bit complex to explain, but hopefully those into 5D sound design may get a better understanding of the benefits of each synth. And I mention 5D/MPE, because Equator was designed as a 5D synth from the ground up (and in addition its mod system is bi-polar which makes it much easier to use than Cypher. In order to get this bi-polar response, we would need to use the Maths modules in Cypher2 - another huge feature but one that needs study to understand well).

I think, with some artistic licesne, it would not be wrong to describe Cypher2 as an uber modular synth. If looked at from this angle, it may become easier to work with. (Of course, technically, Cypher2 is not a modular synth as we understand the term, but since it has a totally open modulation system where anything can be patched to everything else, in multiple ways, it has the same freedom of interaction as a modular synth).

Now, as a bit of trivia, a lot of the simplicity of Equator also comes from the fact that Equator had to run on Linux on the DSP engine in Seaboard Grand. Equator is also a real hardware design, which means that there was a CPU limit to what we could do with the feature set in Equator.

So, to conclude, take your time with Cypher2, because it really is a monster of a synth. Totally unique.
We can go from the lushest of analogue timbres through aggressive FM/wave-shaping madness, to delicate and supremely expressive sounds that often have this hybrid, physical modelling aura around them.

Often, what I like the most are some of the hybrid patches in Cypher2. When combined with the Seaboard RISE they become absolutely real and alive. A film composers dream come true.

Long post, sorry for that!

Wow! Thanks so much for writing all of this. I was actually hoping for that level of detail, it was very kind of you to take the time to write it all out. I didn't realize you were at the center of Equator creation and part of the team.

I definitely have downloaded the manual for Cypher 2 and have gone through it, but as you mentioned the synth is complex so it will take multiple read throughs to get it all. I thought I have seen all of the Cypher 2 videos on youtube. You mentioned making sure I see the videos made by someone named Rozzer, are these the fxpansion videos on youtube? Or is it a separate user? I googled the name along with Cypher 2 synth and did the same on youtube and I'm not pulling up anything.

Thanks again!

[himalaya]

Ah, ‘Rozzer’ is the person posting a few posts above and also a sound designer extraordinaire and a very talented video tutorial maker. So all the official FXpansion videos are by him.

This patch is by Rozzer. Another sound that shows how far Cypher’s analogue ‘guts’ can be stretched and twisted beyond recognition:
https://soundcloud.com/fxpansion/pd-euc ... ilement-5d

[exmatproton]

Is it possible to set the MOD SEQUENCERS to follow triggering as well? The main seq is following my daw quite nice, but the mod seq's aren't triggered.

[Angus_FX]

@xanthos is there anything unusual about your network setup, e.g. blackholed IPs via HOSTS file or router blocks? We've found that occasionally a system where there are unexpected network timeouts can cause this kind of slow scanning. It'll be fixed in a coming update.

[xanthos]

@xanthos is there anything unusual about your network setup, e.g. blackholed IPs via HOSTS file or router blocks? We've found that occasionally a system where there are unexpected network timeouts can cause this kind of slow scanning. It'll be fixed in a coming update.

Hi,
yes, there is a custom DNS server (Pi-Hole) used which is quite restrictive in terms of web-requests.
Thanks, looking forward to the update to finally try out that beast!

[Angus_FX]

Sent DM with instructions.

[Karbon L. Forms]

Sent DM with instructions.

Can I get some too? I have a hefty hosts file and Cypher2 takes a week to scan.