Plugin Alliance new transfer policy caused concerns and is corrected...

[Haraldator]

So glad I sold my stuff a month ago, horrible new policy.

Their constant discounts also devalue their products a lot.

Yeah, the companies that participated in the price wars can thank themselves. That strategy is bound to come back and bite them in their asses. Too bad it is already affecting the entire industry. As if it wasn't hard enough to make money before...

The future we're headed for if this crazy situation of over saturation (no pun intended) and price wars continues is that all these tools will be free and you will have to watch ads while making music with them instead. And the people who develop them for us will all have day jobs and refer to their plugin development project as their "hobby" (as is already the case for many).

[Haraldator]

That's my experience too... I take into consideration the resale value of software in my purchase decision. A sellable license is an asset of value. I have a significant investment in audio software. Part of the rationale for a purchase is the net asset value. So for PA to do this when I have 99% of their plugins puts a significant dent in my asset value and completely changes my context of owning these products. For other companies with next-sale-NFR, they always have a negative impact on my purchase decison. Often to the degree that I will not buy them unless they are going to offer unusually high value otherwise. So for me a move like this, or what Waves did, is bait-and-switch bad business practice. Oh well. Those are the risk. I just hope there are more up front companies with good business practices vs shoe with poor practices.

Same here.

I've recently decided that I'm done with UAD. Their resale policy just makes it absoluely meaningless to purchase more plugins from them. While I knew all along that if I wanted to sell a UAD plugin it meant I had to sell all of them, I was kind of ok with that for a while. But then what happens is that you find new tools that make older ones obsolete for you, and now I'm stuck with lots of UAD plugins that are no longer in use and that I can only get rid of if I sell it all (63 at this point) for pennies on the dollar. And that really sucks. I've spent thousands of dollars on this platform, and while I'm happy with the UAD stuff I still use, I know that I'm definitely not going to spend any more with them. It just doesn't make sense. So I frankly couldn't care less what new plugins they come out with or how many vouchers they send me. I've come to the realisation that their business practices suck. I have very little respect for that AND it's costing me money. So I'm done.

And now that I've learned that there are limitations to PA license transfers, I'm not pleased. It means the PA plugins I have planned to sell will be worth less. Couple that with their desperate PLEASE PLEASE BUY OUR PLUGINS FOR ALMOST FREE sales, and it's obvious that what I've got from them (some 45 products) is no longer worth much. Which means I'm out.

Obviously, one could argue that buying software, you should expect it to become worthless in a relatively short amount of time. But I don't think that needs to be true. My plugins from Softube and U-He, for example, stil hold their value well, because the quality (and thus longevity) was always there, and because these companies are run by people smart enough to not try to win any price wars by selling their stuff at prices that long term would only serve to help kick the legs out from underneath the entire industry.

So I'll keep buying Softube (although the retarded Gobbler mess seriously annoys the f**k out of me), and I'll always buy U-He, because they've made it very clear what they stand for as a company (I've rarely seen anything better). But until I see resale policies that make sense to me, I've bought my last UAD and Plugin Alliance product.

Now, I understand that this business is incredibly tough to make money in, and that desperate measures are therefore taken in order to keep things afloat. But desperate measures have a nasty habit of coming back to bite you in your ass. And how could you even think about not treating your customers well in a time where there is an absolutely absurd amount of competition??

Anyway, I'm not sure anyone has the answers for how to make things work out in this industry long term anyway. Personally, I wouldn't even think about establishing a company in the music software business at this point. The future for isn't looking bright, to be honest. Most people starting something today might as well take their money and flush it down the toilet instead. At best, it would most likely take you years to turn a profit (which is already the case for the vast majority anyway, naturally), and by that time things are likely to look very different, so you'd probably be looking at other opportunities anyway. The trajectory we're on now will very soon lead to a place where everyone expects to get everything for free once they've purchased the hardware to run it on. I'm not sure that's even avoidable, but at least I would think it's in lot of businesses' interest to hold it off for a bit. Instead, companies like Waves and Plugin Alliance are currently doing their best to help that day come sooner rather than later. I wish their employees good luck in looking for new jobs once the goal is reached. Phone companies like Apple will still buy stuff to put on their phones (and their computers, if they haven't lost any remaining interest in making those by that time), but with a million desperate music software companies at their door, they're not going to be likely to pay very much.

Anyway, bla bla bla. Rant mode off. Bottom line: If I can't get rid of something at a reasonable for a reasonable amount of moolah once I've found something else to replace it, I probably won't be interested in buying it in the first place.

And it's bye bye from me to Universal Audio and Plugin Alliance. First time in a few years I won't be opening your Christmas sale emails.

Also, it's never a good idea to pee your pants to stay warm.

[lajosuti]

I would never buy a plugin again which uses iLok. Some people would never buy a plugin with bad resell policy, and again others wouldn't buy a plugin without the ability to resize the interface (some plugins are just unusable with 4K screens).

Luckily there are still enough plugins and companies to choose from.

[zvenx]

I would never buy a plugin again which uses iLok. Some people would never buy a plugin with bad resell policy, and again others wouldn't buy a plugin without the ability to resize the interface (some plugins are just unusable with 4K screens).

Luckily there are still enough plugins and companies to choose from.

Whereas for me installers (UAD and Softube) have become dealbreakers so too is working properly at low latencies (PA).

But indeed wonderful to have so much choices.
rsp

[Haraldator]

I would never buy a plugin again which uses iLok. Some people would never buy a plugin with bad resell policy, and again others wouldn't buy a plugin without the ability to resize the interface (some plugins are just unusable with 4K screens).

Luckily there are still enough plugins and companies to choose from.

Whereas for me installers (UAD and Softube) have become dealbreakers so too is working properly at low latencies (PA).

But indeed wonderful to have so much choices.
rsp

Aside from plugins apparently being licensed to computers I never installed them on (or asked to license them on - I did install other PA plugins on them, though), Plugin Alliance's installers have always worked perfectly for me. No issue there at all.

Nothing has made me want to yell and scream at the top of my lungs like that utterly meaningless and moronic Gobbler thing that Softube insists on forcing down their customers' throats, though. I mean, sheesh haha. At the end of it all I've been like ".... umm.... why? WHY? Why are you doing this to us??? Were things running to smoothly before or something??"

Hopefully I won't have to deal with that thing for a while.

Softube's alright, though. They don't get too heavily involved in the price wars, and they make very solid products. Among my fave companies for sure. Their new Harmonics plugin is in use every day here.

[zvenx]

I love PA's installer ftr.

And indeed other than their installer which even the my download they have I believe purposely been making more cumbersome, I do love Softube's products.
rsp

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, I so far found everything from PA but Unfiltered Audio totally non-interesting.

I was a UA customer before they went with PA and wasn't too happy with their decision, since PA always had a funny smell for me with basically totally overpriced (and to me boring) plugins that then were given away at their normal value in sales or through vouchers.
I'm not too happy with their copy protection either, it seems to fail rather often here.
These new antics don't add any joy to the mess either.

In the long run, I actually hope UA leave PA again and do their own thing - they definitely have the portfolio for it by now - they don't fit into the otherwise rather bland PA world anyway IMO.

Cheers,

Tom

[dandezebra]

I think the Elysia plugs are great as well as UA, and some of bx (Consoles, subsynth). I am disappointed in this decision mostly for UA though. Also, because I remember reading that they have a few more devs being added soon.

[trmupstage]

I also love a lot of the Softube plugins as well as Plugin Alliance. I know it would be nice to be able to sell plugins easier, but I tend to just keep them anyway for backwards compatibility with older sessions. I don't think it's a big deal for me. It just makes me think twice before buying something instead of instantly buying every new toy. That might be a good thing in the long run. I'd rather spend my time mixing with tools I know than spend endless hours experimenting with the new flavor. But that's just me. I used to love all the tweaky FX plugins. Now, I just want to get the results I want as fast as possible.... but that's going of topic.

[iftango]

I would never buy a plugin again which uses iLok. Some people would never buy a plugin with bad resell policy, and again others wouldn't buy a plugin without the ability to resize the interface (some plugins are just unusable with 4K screens).

You are not taking into account that many of us have lost quite a big sum of money with this change. And Plugin Alliance has lost quite a big sum of respect.

[U-o]

Never own a single plugin from them, but I understand you well, that you are angry.

E.g. I can not imagine that for example Image-Line will tomorrow change their policy with life-time-free updates. Their products are NFR after purchase and lot of people will be completelly f**ked with new policy.

BTW: If PA changed their policy today, how can they apply it on all products even they were bought in past?

[iftango]

BTW: If PA changed their policy today, how can they apply it on all products even they were bought in past?

Exactly! Even if they have the legal right they don't have the moral right. They should have thought of implementing another option instead of going the greedy route. Something along the line of what u-he does: if you want to sell it in the first 9 months you pay a fee otherwise transfers are allowed, free and unlimited.

[OneOfManyPauls]

nm

[OneOfManyPauls]

I'm no lawyer, but I'm struggling to see how the PA EULA matches the way they operate - and it seems down-right contradictory in places eg :

Restrictions
You may not (i) copy the Software, except for purposes consistent with this Agreement; (ii) transfer the Software to a third party; (iii) modify, decompile, disassemble, decrypt, reverse engineer or otherwise attempt to derive the source code of the Software; (iv) export the Software in contravention of applicable U.S. and foreign export laws and regulations; (v) use the Software other than in connection with operation of the Software; (vi) remove, delete, alter or obscure any trademarks or any copyright, trademark, patent or other intellectual property or proprietary rights notices from the Software, including any copy thereof.

Transfer
Your license will automatically terminate upon any transfer of the Software. Software rental is not allowed. Upon transfer, you must deliver the original and all complete, partial or electronically stored copies of the Software and related documentation to the transferee. The transferee must accept this Agreement as a condition to the transfer.

No specific mention of transfer fees or making software NFR.

[rod_zero]

The EULA this companies use is just copy and paste, theyknow no one is going to court over 100 USD product.