Plugin Alliance new transfer policy caused concerns and is corrected...

[MogwaiBoy]

I guess they had staff in support working full time just doing secondhand transfers - and it probably continues to grow in number, so they thought "we need to put a cap on this madness". But they could have beefed up the code and made the process more automated.. like Native Instruments for example.

[plexuss]

I guess they had staff in support working full time just doing secondhand transfers - and it probably continues to grow in number, so they thought "we need to put a cap on this madness". But they could have beefed up the code and made the process more automated.. like Native Instruments for example.

It was likely profitable for them: $20US for a single license, $50US for 2 or more. Lets say for some unreasonable reason it takes 10 mins to manually do a transfer, that would be $120US / hour at the $20 rate. even if they had 6 to do in 2 3-license batches that still $100US / h.

[Haraldator]

I guess they had staff in support working full time just doing secondhand transfers - and it probably continues to grow in number, so they thought "we need to put a cap on this madness". But they could have beefed up the code and made the process more automated.. like Native Instruments for example.

Heh, if I was charging $20 per transfer - a rather quick thing to do - I'd WANT my staff to be doing them all day long.

[plexuss]

Dirk posted this on the facebook PA page. This I assume after I pointed him to this thread. I commented on facebook reiterating that we'd appreciate the NFR policy removed otherwise many of us have decided we will no longer buy PA products with it in place.

LICENSE TRANSFERS:
I understand there is an issue and we'll look into this in the next couple of days. If there is anything we need to fix, we'll do so.
Dirk.

[iftango]

This I assume after I pointed him to this thread.

Let's wait and see. Maybe he also wants to wait and see if our anger vanishes or not...

[jens]

That's my experience too... I take into consideration the resale value of software in my purchase decision. A sellable license is an asset of value. I have a significant investment in audio software. Part of the rationale for a purchase is the net asset value. So for PA to do this when I have 99% of their plugins puts a significant dent in my asset value and completely changes my context of owning these products. For other companies with next-sale-NFR, they always have a negative impact on my purchase decison. Often to the degree that I will not buy them unless they are going to offer unusually high value otherwise. So for me a move like this, or what Waves did, is bait-and-switch bad business practice. Oh well. Those are the risk. I just hope there are more up front companies with good business practices vs shoe with poor practices.

Same here.

I've recently decided that I'm done with UAD. Their resale policy just makes it absoluely meaningless to purchase more plugins from them. While I knew all along that if I wanted to sell a UAD plugin it meant I had to sell all of them, I was kind of ok with that for a while. But then what happens is that you find new tools that make older ones obsolete for you, and now I'm stuck with lots of UAD plugins that are no longer in use and that I can only get rid of if I sell it all (63 at this point) for pennies on the dollar. And that really sucks. I've spent thousands of dollars on this platform, and while I'm happy with the UAD stuff I still use, I know that I'm definitely not going to spend any more with them. It just doesn't make sense. So I frankly couldn't care less what new plugins they come out with or how many vouchers they send me. I've come to the realisation that their business practices suck. I have very little respect for that AND it's costing me money. So I'm done.

And now that I've learned that there are limitations to PA license transfers, I'm not pleased. It means the PA plugins I have planned to sell will be worth less. Couple that with their desperate PLEASE PLEASE BUY OUR PLUGINS FOR ALMOST FREE sales, and it's obvious that what I've got from them (some 45 products) is no longer worth much. Which means I'm out.

Obviously, one could argue that buying software, you should expect it to become worthless in a relatively short amount of time. But I don't think that needs to be true. My plugins from Softube and U-He, for example, stil hold their value well, because the quality (and thus longevity) was always there, and because these companies are run by people smart enough to not try to win any price wars by selling their stuff at prices that long term would only serve to help kick the legs out from underneath the entire industry.

So I'll keep buying Softube (although the retarded Gobbler mess seriously annoys the f**k out of me), and I'll always buy U-He, because they've made it very clear what they stand for as a company (I've rarely seen anything better). But until I see resale policies that make sense to me, I've bought my last UAD and Plugin Alliance product.

Now, I understand that this business is incredibly tough to make money in, and that desperate measures are therefore taken in order to keep things afloat. But desperate measures have a nasty habit of coming back to bite you in your ass. And how could you even think about not treating your customers well in a time where there is an absolutely absurd amount of competition??

Anyway, I'm not sure anyone has the answers for how to make things work out in this industry long term anyway. Personally, I wouldn't even think about establishing a company in the music software business at this point. The future for isn't looking bright, to be honest. Most people starting something today might as well take their money and flush it down the toilet instead. At best, it would most likely take you years to turn a profit (which is already the case for the vast majority anyway, naturally), and by that time things are likely to look very different, so you'd probably be looking at other opportunities anyway. The trajectory we're on now will very soon lead to a place where everyone expects to get everything for free once they've purchased the hardware to run it on. I'm not sure that's even avoidable, but at least I would think it's in lot of businesses' interest to hold it off for a bit. Instead, companies like Waves and Plugin Alliance are currently doing their best to help that day come sooner rather than later. I wish their employees good luck in looking for new jobs once the goal is reached. Phone companies like Apple will still buy stuff to put on their phones (and their computers, if they haven't lost any remaining interest in making those by that time), but with a million desperate music software companies at their door, they're not going to be likely to pay very much.

Anyway, bla bla bla. Rant mode off. Bottom line: If I can't get rid of something at a reasonable for a reasonable amount of moolah once I've found something else to replace it, I probably won't be interested in buying it in the first place.

And it's bye bye from me to Universal Audio and Plugin Alliance. First time in a few years I won't be opening your Christmas sale emails.

Also, it's never a good idea to pee your pants to stay warm.

Uhm what?

You see, I have absolutely no need for any additional plugin in any category - I have dozens and dozens of compressors, EQs, reverbs, preamp-emulators, modulation-effects, guitar-amps, etc. - and for most of us it will be the same. So why should I pay more than (say) 30€ for a compressors if I have more compressors than I could ever use anyway?

You seem to take for granted that (say) 300€ for a compressor would be any warranted. But the truth is the discounted prices are what most people are willing to pay, not the MSRPs.

The plugin companies can only survive if they manage to persuade us to keep purchasing stuff we have no need for. Some are obviously very good at it. Sean at Valhalla only releases a new plugin every few years and he never does any sales - but then again his plugins are only 50$ and worth every penny - both quality-wise and feature-wise they are in a whole other league compared to the average PA plugins where they obviously spent a lot less time on R&D (bx_rooMS = 199$ - yeah, right (I purchased it for about 25€ and do not regret it)).

[TheKid]

I would never buy a plugin again which uses iLok. ...
Luckily there are still enough plugins and companies to choose from.

This. Exactly this.
No iLok, no Waves, no PA, no Softube-Gobbler stuff.
And it's time for the simplest investment rule: DON'T BUY SHIT.

[electricthing]

It would have been better if PA had given customers notice that in a half years time these changes would be implemented and that they would only apply to new purchases. But how easy would that last thing be manageable?

In defence of PA: I have gotten quite some bonusses as PA customer. Much more than from any other company. Monthly vouchers after spending above $50 a year. I have gotten good value this way.
I don't mind some changes made when a company reacts to the current market.
And I see that it is quite hard to find the right balance for the customers.

If they would:
Automate the transfer proces (Or have they done that already?)
Bring down the transfer fee to $15 per plugin.
Not allow the use of vouchers for the transfer fee.
Not make the transfered plugins NFR.

I don't think that would create a problem for a company.

Though they sometimes struggle to adapt to the market and sometimes make mistakes, PA and Waves nowadays mean good value for money to me and their products deliver and are reliable to me in every track.
So they get a bit of credit from me.

I just bought PA DSM V2, with x-mas voucher for $49 (o.k.VAT was added later).
I looked for a similar product, they were more expensive even on sale, so I did not demo them.
I'm not affiliated.

[iftango]

It would have been better if PA had given customers notice that in a half years time these changes would be implemented and that they would only apply to new purchases. But how easy would that last thing be manageable?

Not very difficult with a good database. They can manage products + customers + rebate codes, they can add some time variables without too much hassle

I have gotten good value this way.

Their plugins are insanely expensive. $349 (+taxes) for an SSL channel strip?
Even with the current rebate at $99 ($120 with taxes) it's quite a price to pay.
Let's say that you buy it thinking that if you ever end up not using it that much later on you can still sell it for maybe $50-$60. This factors into your decision as it potentially makes a unused plugin only cost you $50 after resale.
When you have tens of such plugins and Plugin Alliance suddenly tells you that they changed their mind and you can't sell them no more, how would you feel? No amount of vouchers and promotions can justify such an unrespectful move.

[kmonkey]

Very short sighted of PA. They think it will help their business but it will drive more people away.

+1 - so true

PA - Donkeys playing games.

Can't stop laughing about SSL branded plugin release when in fact it turned ugly (read GS thread) when army of users noticed that metering in plugin is completely broken. Yes metering in a plugin which have dynamic part - is broken

You would think SSL engineers know how a metering should work. Or wait...is it possible that SSL only added badge while noone at SSL actually reviewed that piece of crap.

PA act like their plugins is last shit when it's not...clearly..

[iftango]

metering in plugin is completely broken.

Indeed the meters are not calibrated with one another. It's a mess for such a high priced plugin. The fact that it has not been fixed since the N is just baffling. And the fact that SSL puts its stamp on that without checking is even crazier.

Maybe it's time to see brainworx for what it has become and separate it from other devs like Unfiltered Audio who are truely innovative and generous (thinking about the free Reaktor Blocks - Euro Reakt)?

[jens]

PA act like their plugins is last shit when it's not...clearly..

Yes, that's exactly what I meant: they have premium prices but obviously their R&D, GUI development, etc. is rather abysmal compared to the likes of Valhalla, Klanghelm or TDR.

Just look at the tiny GUI of VSM-3 or the plain horrible one of Museq (with it's microscopic output-control while the huge round thing in the middle does nothing at all except wasting screen estate) and it becomes pretty clear that money (i.e. as little development-time as possible) was the deciding factor, not quality)

[plexuss]

PA act like their plugins is last shit when it's not...clearly..

Yes, that's exactly what I meant: they have premium prices but obviously their R&D, GUI development, etc. is rather abysmal compared to the likes of Valhalla, Klanghelm or TDR.

Just look at the tiny GUI of VSM-3 or the plain horrible one of Museq (with it's microscopic output-control while the huge round thing in the middle does nothing at all except wasting screen estate) and it becomes pretty clear that money (i.e. as little development-time as possible) was the deciding factor, not quality)

Finally something I agree with jens on!

[robotmonkey]

You see, I have absolutely no need for any additional plugin in any category - I have dozens and dozens of compressors, EQs, reverbs, preamp-emulators, modulation-effects, guitar-amps, etc. - and for most of us it will be the same. So why should I pay more than (say) 30€ for a compressors if I have more compressors than I could ever use anyway?

You seem to take for granted that (say) 300€ for a compressor would be any warranted. But the truth is the discounted prices are what most people are willing to pay, not the MSRPs.

I think this is the matter. Waves was first to realize that the market had profoundly changed. These days the majority of the music making market does not consist of big studios and star musicians. Majority of people making music are hobbyists, bedroom producers and so on. This is a huge amount of people. And I think it's obvious that a lot of those people, especially if they are not making any income with their music, are not going to buy that many 350$ plugins. They would rather download them from the warez sites.

The new economic reality is of digital goods online market saturation. There's just so many things you can spend your money online these days. Games, music, films, books, tutorial videos, software etc. There's lots of competition. It has been shown long time ago that in such environment a micro-transaction sales model works well. It's better to sell many copies with low price instead of couple with high price.

U-he is often brought out as an example of a developer who does not "devalue" their software. But guess what? I have now so many plugins that u-he does not even register on my radar these days simply because every niche they offer has been already filled by competition. The only u-he plugin I bought was the 15$ ACE when they had the one-off sale, and only because it was so cheap.

[sqigls]

tough crowd

Presswerk is such an amazing compressor.
If i had to choose one, that's the one.