If not Firefox then what?

[fmr]

The Internet is NOT healthy. It is a spy tool exploited by US, European and Israeli spy organizations. The REAL spies. Only later do Facebook, Google etc. come into the picture. And they are spies too, although a bit different. And then come commercial companies who want to sell you stuff you don't need, but for this puropose they need your metadata which they collect or purchase without your approval and generally treat you like a lab rat with a credit card.

And who decides what is 'information' or not? The guys who want to tell you who you are and what you should think. Ah, it's a Russian site spreading this 'misinformation'? We'll ditch it as a last result in your search. Ah, a Chinese site? Won't be listed at all.

You know, long before the so-called Russian trolls, there were the US trolls, bots, etc. including on Facebook, Twitter, etc.

The phrase 'democratic societies' gives the game away. Democratic, my ass!

Erm. OK. But when I quickly read it, I thought 'oh good, maybe less anti-vax, anti-gmo bullshit stories getting into peoples heads'.

You seem a tad paranoid.

Actually, I think perfumer is right. A new kind of censorship is in the works, disguised and justified with the words "protect democracy". The problems resides exactly in the question posted. and some others:

who decides what is 'information' or not?

who decides what is "democratic" or not?

In the end, who decides who has the right to speak or not? And by which authority?

[toonertik]

!$&%^ "£$% &&*(!% W$W$T^...........

Damn Firefox...
What was this message... must be important!

[chk071]

There's a brilliant protection from spies of any kind anyway:

[Karbon L. Forms]

lol. Nothing new then. All good.

[perfumer]

The US elections, Brexit, Gilets Jaunes... very powerful people are at each others throats. Laugh all you want.

[Karbon L. Forms]

The US elections, Brexit, Gilets Jaunes... very powerful people are at each others throats. Laugh all you want.

As I say. Nothing new there.

[perfumer]

I'm glad you are so well educated and in the know. Keep learning - I do it every day.

[do_androids_dream]

Firefox is also now part of the censorship propaganda bs now too..

That is disappointing to learn. Do you have an example?

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/08/0 ... on-online/

Why is this bad?

From the link:

In short: it makes the Internet less healthy. As a result, the Internet’s ability to power democratic society suffers greatly.

The Internet is NOT healthy. It is a spy tool exploited by US, European and Israeli spy organizations. The REAL spies. Only later do Facebook, Google etc. come into the picture. And they are spies too, although a bit different. And then come commercial companies who want to sell you stuff you don't need, but for this puropose they need your metadata which they collect or purchase without your approval and generally treat you like a lab rat with a credit card.

And who decides what is 'information' or not? The guys who want to tell you who you are and what you should think. Ah, it's a Russian site spreading this 'misinformation'? We'll ditch it as a last result in your search. Ah, a Chinese site? Won't be listed at all.

You know, long before the so-called Russian trolls, there were the US trolls, bots, etc. including on Facebook, Twitter, etc.

The phrase 'democratic societies' gives the game away. Democratic, my ass!

Erm. OK. But when I quickly read it, I thought 'oh good, maybe less anti-vax, anti-gmo bullshit stories getting into peoples heads'.

You seem a tad paranoid.

If this is how you feel you will be easy to 'sell' this to. What qualifies a software company, that makes an internet browser, to decide what information is true or false? What gives them the authority? It's like saying a paper manufacturer can decide what's written on their paper. Anyone should have the right to say whatever the hell they want - it's down to the 'audience' to decide whether they should give them the time of day. On principle, I am 100% against any form of censorship - however 'softly' they try to sell it.

[chk071]

... and the OP only asked for a browser.

[ThomasHelzle]

The US elections, Brexit, Gilets Jaunes... very powerful people are at each others throats. Laugh all you want.

Yeah. I remember that guy who was said to be on the paranoid side of things with his website and a day after the snowden reveals suddenly became a sought after authority instead.

Not laughing here.

If I would want to keep Europe in check and not get too uppity or united, what better way than pushing the internal fringe forces to let it kill itself? Much easier and cheaper.

If I want to distract people from the real issues, what better way than having a clown become president and keeping everybody so occupied on twitter that global warming, destruction of the environment and harebrained ways into the future go unnoticed?

Aren't we a funny bunch...
Still in early Alpha but man are we proud of ourselves

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

... and the OP only asked for a browser.

How much time per day do you spend in your browser?
How many decisions per day are somehow influenced by what you search in that browser?
How much information do you get through that browser?
How much financial transactions do you make through it?
How much communications happens through it?

"Only a browser" is relative...

Turn off the internet for a week in a country and "only" becomes quite dramatic.
We just don't realise it since it's like the air we breath - it's everywhere.

Cheers,

Tom

[perfumer]

Guys, I told you this is my profession. What's with the tin-foil hats and sarcasm?! If you've been living under a rock and only reading fiction and listening to pop music, it's not my fault.

Yeah, Tom, the situation is not pretty, going from bad to worse - how do I know?

Edit:

I just read this article: http://glasove.com/categories/novini/ne ... litichesko

It's in Bulgarian and very important on the whole, but what's relevant to the conversation we're having in this thread is the following paragraph:

The chairman of the GERB Parliamentary Group has informed the head of the European and Russian Affairs Directorate at the National Security Council, Fiona Hill, about the importance of the elections for the European Parliament in May 2019 on transatlantic relations. Not allowing misinformation and domination of fake news in the election campaign is crucial to the end result. An important condition for the future of transatlantic relations is the strengthening of the status of systemic parties in the European Parliament and the non-admission of populist parties to take precedence in defining the political agenda in Europe over the next 5 years, Tsvetanov said.

[Karbon L. Forms]

That is disappointing to learn. Do you have an example?

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/08/0 ... on-online/

Why is this bad?

From the link:

In short: it makes the Internet less healthy. As a result, the Internet’s ability to power democratic society suffers greatly.

The Internet is NOT healthy. It is a spy tool exploited by US, European and Israeli spy organizations. The REAL spies. Only later do Facebook, Google etc. come into the picture. And they are spies too, although a bit different. And then come commercial companies who want to sell you stuff you don't need, but for this puropose they need your metadata which they collect or purchase without your approval and generally treat you like a lab rat with a credit card.

And who decides what is 'information' or not? The guys who want to tell you who you are and what you should think. Ah, it's a Russian site spreading this 'misinformation'? We'll ditch it as a last result in your search. Ah, a Chinese site? Won't be listed at all.

You know, long before the so-called Russian trolls, there were the US trolls, bots, etc. including on Facebook, Twitter, etc.

The phrase 'democratic societies' gives the game away. Democratic, my ass!

Erm. OK. But when I quickly read it, I thought 'oh good, maybe less anti-vax, anti-gmo bullshit stories getting into peoples heads'.

You seem a tad paranoid.

If this is how you feel you will be easy to 'sell' this to. What qualifies a software company, that makes an internet browser, to decide what information is true or false? What gives them the authority? It's like saying a paper manufacturer can decide what's written on their paper. Anyone should have the right to say whatever the hell they want - it's down to the 'audience' to decide whether they should give them the time of day. On principle, I am 100% against any form of censorship - however 'softly' they try to sell it.

It's their browser. They can do what the f**k they want with it. So don't use it. What gives you the right to dictate what a company does? Go make your own internet if you don't like it.

"it's down to the 'audience' to decide whether they should give them the time of day". Very noble. Thing is, most of that 'audience' are idiots.

But keep fighting the good fight dudes. It's human nature to enjoy feeling 'special' and being party to 'the truth'.

I can't help. I'm of no use to anyone. I'm so blown away by how complex this world is, and what little I know, that I don't give a flying f**k anymore.

So, I'll thank you in advance for saving us plebs from 'them'.

[Unaspected]

If this is how you feel you will be easy to 'sell' this to. What qualifies a software company, that makes an internet browser, to decide what information is true or false? What gives them the authority? It's like saying a paper manufacturer can decide what's written on their paper. Anyone should have the right to say whatever the hell they want - it's down to the 'audience' to decide whether they should give them the time of day. On principle, I am 100% against any form of censorship - however 'softly' they try to sell it.

Very well said. I now see much more relevance in this thread and will be checking out more browsers. Slightly irritating as I've only cared whether my website works on Firefox up to this point. I definitely don't want to support Chrome so it's on to slightly more obscure solutions. This does seem to be the path that those who care about basic internet freedoms are being forced to take by big tech companies.

But keep fighting the good fight dudes. It's human nature to enjoy feeling 'special' and being party to 'the truth'.

It's not about perceived truth - that's the problem being discussed. How can you trust anyone else to provide you with a singular narrative that is in your 'best interest'? This is about having information available so that people can draw their own conclusions. It's about choice and variety. Nothing to do with how we feel unless we include terms such as 'restricted' and 'coddled'.

[Karbon L. Forms]

I don't trust anyone else. Everyone is either a self-serving idiot or a self-serving scumbag. I've looked into human nature and all those behaviours we evolved, so much that I don't even trust myself. Everyone has their bubble, formed to give them ease in a harsh reality. Everyone lies, particularly to themselves. Just look at religion or any of its substitutes. Or Americans with their 'freedom'. So go on and enjoy your warm-fuzzy 'choice' which makes you feel you have some agency in the world.