KVR Audio

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:14 am

So, if devs are not allowed to review, what about beta testers?

I test a lot of stuff, and i even get stuff free, so would my reviews be allowed, or would they be construed as being biased

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:41 am

I can certainly see both sides of the issue. I believe that Ben has chosen the only fair way to exclude developers. I disagree that his logic is flawed, and support that decision.

However, I also feel that NOBODY should really be banned, which is also unilaterally fair. My experience has been that developers of similar products "duke it out" by offering different price points, different features, and various marketing tactics.

I find it unlikely that the small percentage of developers that MAY put a negative review of another person's product will be even a consequential statistic. The devs I know are 'above' that kind of behaviour, and the freeware/donationware devs seem to be quite supportive of one another and are more inclined to give a GOOD review. Both commercial and freeware devs usually have better things to do than pop into a forum just to post such a review about a competitor.

In this case, I feel the benefits (allowing more reviewers for a broader perspective, creating good vibes by not excluding people, and not having to 'police' anything too severely) more than make up for the only possible negative effect (a small risk of a chance) that one dev may post a negative review about another dev's product.

Greg

The_Hidden_Goose · Post by **The_Hidden_Goose** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:18 am

One the point of letting developers review: why the hell not? So they might be biased - who isn't?

Like someone said, if the review is so obviously just out to bash the developer and not the product, a moderator can pull it, and give reasons. Surely having a review pulled will show that reviewer that if they do it again, it'll be pulled again.

On the idea of just letting registered users review: what would be the point? You'll only ever get people reviewing it who liked it enough to buy it! Kinda defeats the object for me. Demo's should be reviewable.

If reviews are heavily "policed" I lose interest very quickly, as they become useless to me. If there are negative technical points made, I agree that it would be a good feature to allow the developer to put a link to a response if it's something they've since cleared up, but to have developers trying to justify every point would become useless again.

So long as the review is about the product and not the developer, I can't see much of a problem with developers reviewing other synths. Even full-time paid developers. I'd value their opinions just as much as a user.

chris_b · Post by **chris_b** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:56 am

logicgate wrote:I agree with BONES. I occasionally tinker with SynthEdit but wouldn't suddenly consider myself a "developer" just because I released a SynthEdit creation to the unsuspecting public.

Me too. I've made some of my Synthedit stuff available to non-Synthedit users thanks to the "save as VST" feature of Synthedit - but I'm just a user of a modular synth not a developer.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:38 am

Well, if nothing else, this thread seems to have kick-started people into writing some reviews. Pity, I was hoping to have the opposite effect.

pummel · Post by **pummel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:48 pm

No one releasing an SE freebie should be considered a developer. That is silly.

Are people who submit patches for softsynths considered developers ? Well, guess what -- An SE synth is really just a sophisticated patch.

The line in the sand should be $$$. If you sell here, you cannot review.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:32 pm

I've long held the (minority) opinion that the reviews should be dropped altogether. They cause too much trouble (witness this thread) and really who cares what someone else thinks about a synth. They almost all have demos and the only opinion that matters is your own. If this were my site and thank God it's not (Ben I wouldn't have your job for any amount

) I would drop the reviews in a heartbeat.

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:34 pm

pummel wrote:An SE synth is really just a sophisticated patch.

as is c++, and human existence itself

pummel wrote: The line in the sand should be $$$. If you sell here, you cannot review.

then i'll just give away free product and make little crony robots to go piss on reviews for me, or fake identity, or girlfriend's computer.

how about that old grain of salt, eh?

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:35 pm

sorry there, i just realised you didn't say "sophisticated bitch" ;)

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:11 am

Teksonik wrote:They cause too much trouble (witness this thread) and really who cares what someone else thinks about a synth. They almost all have demos

Since when are opposing views "trouble"? And whilst this may once have been a valid argument, how the f**k would a newbie have any idea where to start? How long would it take to give every available demo a meaningful workout?

I think the reviews are the most important part of this site. They are certainly what drew me here in the first place.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:12 am

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Its done - I've removed all the old synths and the high-res song demos from our site. There is also a bit of news, etc.

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:22 am

Hey Bones.
I noticed that with the remaining killerz you have a dead link to the manual of KarmaKiller.

I don't know if this actually got removed by accident, but I thought I'd let you know.

Caleb

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:25 am

Damn you're quick! It wasn't there when I started deleting stuff. I'm about to go home, grab it, bring it back up here and upload it again. Gimme about an hour 'cause I want to nuke a pie while I'm home.

Shane Sanders · Post by **Shane Sanders** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:46 am

Ben | KvR wrote:Sadly disallowing developers the chance to review other developers products is to help PREVENT corruption. As I've stated before, I wish we didn't have to have so many restrictions on who can and can't write reviews, and what can and can't be reviewed (demos, etc.) but abuse by the few means restrictions for the many.

If we allow some devs to review but disallow others we are being unfair.

If a dev A writes a critical review of dev B's products and dev B disputes the criticisms (see the aliasing threads for matters where devs really can't agree) what are we supposed to do? Who do we believe?

We delete the review because dev B insists it is full of incorrect facts, dev A is furious and screams censorship, bias, conspiracy, etc. and we have several threads decrying the state of the reviews system....

Rock - Us - Hard place.

Why not just clearly mark Developers as such with a special icon/avatar or text and "Let the Buyer Beware"? It would be helpful to me to know who the developers were anyway. I doubt many would bother with a flaming review.

And, there's absolutely nothing stopping someone from registering a new account, posting a few dozen forgettable posts, then making some slanted reviews. There's no stopping a determined thief, as they say.

Just my 2 cents...

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:46 am

I wasn't doing quality assurance of your site or anything. I just happened to be downloading all 3 of your synths just after you did it and was checking the manuals.

Complete coincidence.

Caleb

The Future of My Little killerz