Cherry Audio Voltage modular

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NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:39 pm Next level would be modulars like VM, VCV, Tassman etc. and semi-modulars like Bazille, ACE etc. with high level modules and -imho most important - full audio rate modulation capabilities. For me this is less about "casting chaos" but more about the ability to modulate everything with controllers that provide inputs at almost (or literally) audio rate (100 Hz+ to several kHz). (Eigenharp, Morph, Linnstrument, Continuum, Soundplane - you name it). No "control rate parameter slewing" in the way with these audio rate capable modulars!
I am genuinely curious - please can you explain this? Because as far as I know there's nothing 'audio-rate' about these controllers at all, they just repurpose MIDI in a 'note per channel' way to give you more per-note controllers. Unless I've totally misunderstood what you're talking about here?

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cherryDan wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:14 pm
hhuang9611 wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:47 am Then when I checked my library, the designer is gone. Probably some website glitch or is there an update going on?
We've fixed your problem. Sorry, looks like it was just a glitch on our end.

Dan
Same problem here. I used the contact form on the Cherry Audio site, but I'm not sure if the message sent successfully.
γνῶθι σαὐτόν

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NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:39 pm
bmanic wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:05 pm Also, as I already have Reaktor 6 and U-He ACE this was merely a curiosity for me. There's literally nothing that can't be done also in Reaktor.. one just has to imagine it and build it (easier said than done though!). :)

Next level would be modulars like VM, VCV, Tassman etc. and semi-modulars like Bazille, ACE etc. with high level modules and -imho most important - full audio rate modulation capabilities. For me this is less about "casting chaos" but more about the ability to modulate everything with controllers that provide inputs at almost (or literally) audio rate (100 Hz+ to several kHz).
What are you talking about ?
The modulation rate ( update rate ) for reaktor blocks is the same as the sample rate ,
same for vcv rack and softube modular and cherry audio
Everything is processed per sample .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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Exactly. And in Reaktor you can set the whole instrument to x4 samplerate which helps a lot in audio modulation madness.

Oh and of course you can do oversampling as many times as you want inside core within the actual modules of interest but that is slightly cumbersome to do. This does however give the freedom to do some ridiculous amounts of oversampling if so needed.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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gentleclockdivider wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:17 pm
NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:39 pm
bmanic wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:05 pm Also, as I already have Reaktor 6 and U-He ACE this was merely a curiosity for me. There's literally nothing that can't be done also in Reaktor.. one just has to imagine it and build it (easier said than done though!). :)

Next level would be modulars like VM, VCV, Tassman etc. and semi-modulars like Bazille, ACE etc. with high level modules and -imho most important - full audio rate modulation capabilities. For me this is less about "casting chaos" but more about the ability to modulate everything with controllers that provide inputs at almost (or literally) audio rate (100 Hz+ to several kHz).
What are you talking about ?
The modulation rate ( update rate ) for reaktor blocks is the same as the sample rate ,
same for vcv rack and softube modular and cherry audio
Everything is processed per sample .
This is what I am talking about? VCV, VM etc. support audio rate modulation rate, right. Don't have Softube modular, was unsure about Reaktor - good to hear it also supports a audio/modulation rate ratio of 1:1 (and even higher?)!
Edit: Fired Reaktor up out of curiosity. In settings I can set "Audio rate" and "Control rate". The latter is at 400 Hz by default and can be raised to 3200 Hz. Which is already good (enough for all of my purposes). But not really audio rate like VCV, VM etc. on first sight? (As said, am mostly clueless about Reaktor, got it as part of Komplete, played around a little with the physical modeling synths and tried to understand how they work - haven't built anything with it myself yet though).
Edit: Your quote reads as if I would say VCV, VM etc. are "next level" to Reaktor - "next level" was referring to being one step further on the fast results to complexity+capability pathway compared to hardwired synths I discussed in the section before (that you didn't quote) - Reaktor is only mentioned in the section below (which you also didn't quote). Have no interest in convincing anybody that VCV or VM are better or worse than Reaktor. The "sweet spots" are imho different enough that they can happily coexist.
moshimoshi wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:24 pm
NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:39 pm Next level would be modulars like VM, VCV, Tassman etc. and semi-modulars like Bazille, ACE etc. with high level modules and -imho most important - full audio rate modulation capabilities. For me this is less about "casting chaos" but more about the ability to modulate everything with controllers that provide inputs at almost (or literally) audio rate (100 Hz+ to several kHz). (Eigenharp, Morph, Linnstrument, Continuum, Soundplane - you name it). No "control rate parameter slewing" in the way with these audio rate capable modulars!
I am genuinely curious - please can you explain this? Because as far as I know there's nothing 'audio-rate' about these controllers at all, they just repurpose MIDI in a 'note per channel' way to give you more per-note controllers. Unless I've totally misunderstood what you're talking about here?
Eigenharp, Soundplane or Morph (in SDK mode) etc. don't send MIDI data but use a native USB communication with specific, individual software that supports these native protocols.
E.g. Eigenharps sample each key at 2kHz with I think to remember 24 bit resolution and send the full data out via USB (so for 16+ keys you are almost in the data range (and well within audible frequency rate) of audio).
The synth software "EigenD" that comes with Eigenharps has custom modules (oscillators, physical modeling stuff etc.) that can directly be modulated at that rate). Additionally MIDI or OSC can be sent out (with adjustable decimation settings).
Also don't underestimate MIDI, as long as it generated by one application (e.g. EigenD) and read by another application on the same computer (e.g. VM) you can reduce the decimation (and thus increase data rate) substantially, far above what DIN MIDI would allow. Combined with e.g. MPE+ (which allows to also model attack via pressure instead of velocity and 14/21 bit resolution) there shouldn't be too much audible information loss anymore.

Edit: Current MPE based controllers aren't sending events in the kHz range, but some like afaik Linnstrument can at least send MIDI events several times faster than standard MIDI would allow, when it runs in USB mode. So it might also already profit from faster control rates than many keyboard-centric synths offer by default.

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Hi Nothan,
Interesting read, me too, I don't care about a modular environment battle...

If i understand correctly, the principal goal is too avoid midi controller slew ?
Like the Haken CVC ?
And be able to avoid velocity and envelopes and replace them with high resolution pressure ?
Perhaps it's a stupid question, sorry in advance.... but slew is for limiting zipper midi controller noise due to aliasing, no ? If yes, in this case, oversampling it could reduce zipper noise ?
Best
YY

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NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:03 pm Eigenharp, Soundplane or Morph (in SDK mode) etc. don't send MIDI data but use a native USB communication with specific, individual software that supports these native protocols.
E.g. Eigenharps sample each key at 2kHz with I think to remember 24 bit resolution and send the full data out via USB (so for 16+ keys you are almost in the data range (and well within audible frequency rate) of audio).
The synth software "EigenD" that comes with Eigenharps has custom modules (oscillators, physical modeling stuff etc.) that can directly be modulated at that rate). Additionally MIDI or OSC can be sent out (with adjustable decimation settings).
Also don't underestimate MIDI, as long as it generated by one application (e.g. EigenD) and read by another application on the same computer (e.g. VM) you can reduce the decimation (and thus increase data rate) substantially, far above what DIN MIDI would allow. Combined with e.g. MPE+ (which allows to also model attack via pressure instead of velocity and 14/21 bit resolution) there shouldn't be too much audible information loss anymore.

Edit: Current MPE based controllers aren't sending events in the kHz range, but some like afaik Linnstrument can at least send MIDI events several times faster than standard MIDI would allow, when it runs in USB mode. So it might also already profit from faster control rates than many keyboard-centric synths offer by default.
Can't say I'm convinced by this really, it sounds like nonsense. Audio rate modulation has nothing to do with this. It's about the modulation input in the software reacting to changes fast enough. So unless you can do vibrato 4000 times a second or something it won't make any difference. The scan rate of the controller has nothing to do with it. Also I'm pretty sure the sensors in these controllers themselves will be slewed within the controller's firmware. I don't think any sensor will give you a nice clean linear output, there will be some intelligent processing and slewing in the device, even before any additional processing in the software.

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NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:03 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:17 pm
NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:39 pm
bmanic wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:05 pm Also, as I already have Reaktor 6 and U-He ACE this was merely a curiosity for me. There's literally nothing that can't be done also in Reaktor.. one just has to imagine it and build it (easier said than done though!). :)

Next level would be modulars like VM, VCV, Tassman etc. and semi-modulars like Bazille, ACE etc. with high level modules and -imho most important - full audio rate modulation capabilities. For me this is less about "casting chaos" but more about the ability to modulate everything with controllers that provide inputs at almost (or literally) audio rate (100 Hz+ to several kHz).
What are you talking about ?
The modulation rate ( update rate ) for reaktor blocks is the same as the sample rate ,
same for vcv rack and softube modular and cherry audio
Everything is processed per sample .
This is what I am talking about? VCV, VM etc. support audio rate modulation rate, right. Don't have Softube modular, was unsure about Reaktor - good to hear it also supports a audio/modulation rate ratio of 1:1 (and even higher?)!
Edit: Fired Reaktor up out of curiosity. In settings I can set "Audio rate" and "Control rate". The latter is at 400 Hz by default and can be raised to 3200 Hz.
moshimoshi wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:24 pm
NothanUmber wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:39 pm Next level would be modulars like VM, VCV, Tassman etc. and semi-modulars like Bazille, ACE etc. with high level modules and -imho most important - full audio rate modulation capabilities. For me this is less about "casting chaos" but more about the ability to modulate everything with controllers that provide inputs at almost (or literally) audio rate (100 Hz+ to several kHz). (Eigenharp, Morph, Linnstrument, Continuum, Soundplane - you name it). No "control rate parameter slewing" in the way with these audio rate capable modulars!


Word of advice , first look into a piece of softwware before making assumptions :tu:
The max 3200 hz your talking about in reaktor , is the event rate on which some primary modules rely ( lfo's etc )
This has nothing to do with reaktor blocks , blocks are all made in core cells , all operating at audio rate , number crunching on a per sample basis .
I say it again , if you don't know a piece of software , then don't just GUESS what it can and or can't do
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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@ NOtanumber

Word of advice , first look into a piece of software before making assumptions :tu:
The max 3200 hz your talking about in reaktor , is the event rate on which some primary modules rely ( lfo's etc ) it dates back from the old days ( 20 years ago )
This has nothing to do with reaktor blocks , blocks are all made in core cells , all and everything is operating at audio/sample rate , number crunching on a per sample basis , adhereing to a set of specific rules (-1/+1) .
That's why you can modulate everything with anything ( excet the gui , which has it's own refresh rate )
Some people create and upload (so called ) blocks not adhering the blocks standard , and throwing in primary modules , no wonder some of these sound like shit ...because of the lower primary event rate ..


I say it again , if you don't know a piece of software , then don't just GUESS what it can and or can't do ..
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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Whywhy wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:46 pm Hi Nothan,
Interesting read, me too, I don't care about a modular environment battle...

If i understand correctly, the principal goal is too avoid midi controller slew ?
Like the Haken CVC ?
And be able to avoid velocity and envelopes and replace them with high resolution pressure ?
Perhaps it's a stupid question, sorry in advance.... but slew is for limiting zipper midi controller noise due to aliasing, no ? If yes, in this case, oversampling it could reduce zipper noise ?
Yepp, if the synth puts hysteresis on a signal it gets smoother - but then of course the parameter cannot follow the control value very fast anymore. So e.g. fast attacks cannot directly be modeled with incoming pressure events but only with automation via an envelope (which's only input parameter is velocity). Works but of course doesn't provide the same variability as a "at your fingertips" attack curve.
If the controller events are first downsampled and then oversampled again then this further smoothes the signal - but of course cannot restore information that got lost during the decimation process.
moshimoshi wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:51 pm Can't say I'm convinced by this really, it sounds like nonsense. Audio rate modulation has nothing to do with this. It's about the modulation input in the software reacting to changes fast enough. So unless you can do vibrato 4000 times a second or something it won't make any difference. The scan rate of the controller has nothing to do with it. Also I'm pretty sure the sensors in these controllers themselves will be slewed within the controller's firmware. I don't think any sensor will give you a nice clean linear output, there will be some intelligent processing and slewing in the device, even before any additional processing in the software.
Point taken, full audio rate (44.1 kHz+) is slightly overkill for my scenario. But the control rate of many keyboard-optimized synths is by factors lower. So having audio rate guarantees that it also can cope with a e.g. 2 kHz control signal.
You don't need to wiggle your finger 2000 times per second to have an advantage of a high control rate (unless you want to frequency modulate an oscillator with your finger :P ). As mentioned above a fast attack curve cannot be modeled with one pressure event per perhaps 10 ms. Eigenharp etc. are of course using algorithms to process the raw sensor data. But the resulting time resolution is still by factors higher than what most synths allow. Slewing is not equal to slewing - it depends on the used hysteresis rate :)
E.g. MPE+ (an extension of MPE from the Continuum devs) allows the controller to tell the synth the desired update rate - so the synth can adapt it's slewing accordingly. Unfortunately the EaganMatrix is the only MPE+ compatible synth I am aware of...
So that's why I think audio rate synths are interesting for these controllers. Their slewing has to be fast enough to allow audio rate, so by definition it should also be (more than) fast enough for these controllers. So even though the reason why their modulation rate is so high isn't suitability for these new controllers initially (more FM and stuff) it's imho a nice by-product
gentleclockdivider wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:09 pm @ NOtanumber

Word of advice , first look into a piece of software before making assumptions :tu:
The max 3200 hz your talking about in reaktor , is the event rate on which some primary modules rely ( lfo's etc ) it dates back from the old days ( 20 years ago )
[...]
I say it again , if you don't know a piece of software , then don't just GUESS what it can and or can't do ..
.
Thanks for the infos regarding blocks! Honestly not sure where I made too many assumptions - do you mean the question (hence ?) regarding the meaning of "control rate" in the menu? But you are right, me writing more about Reaktor here isn't too helpful. Partly because there isn't too much I know about it, partly because it's probably not the best thread for that anyways :)

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yes , ( reaktor ) control rate in the menu , max 3000 hz which has nothing to do with reaktor blocks >
like I said , reaktor blocks all operate at full sample rate ( or anythying you wish to make in core ) , modulation update = audio sample rate ..only difference is an added dc component , just like real modular synth
audio = ac , control = dc ,,,
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

Post

Whywhy wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:46 pm but slew is for limiting zipper midi controller noise due to aliasing, no ? If yes, in this case, oversampling it could reduce zipper noise ?
An additional thought: For supersampling we would need to introduce a delay (because ss is essentially interpolation - you need to know the target value to calculate the intermediate ones).
For hysteresis the current output value is calculated from the current and previous inputs - no future infos and thus no delay needed.

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Purchased the VC20 filter for $15! is there a demo period available for the vult filters? Couldn't find the option on the store page

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Hi friends,

Today we've released two fantastic new modules for Voltage Modular. The first, MPE Interface, allows you to use a controller that supports MIDI Polyphonic Expression, such as the ROLI Seaboard, to control polyphonic modules, for incredibly expressive results. The MPE Interface is available for $10 in the Module Store.

Check out this video of the MPE Interface in action, being driven by a ROLI Seaboard Block MPE controller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk6N5Cd3Z6c

We've also released the new Poly Unison module, which is included FREE with Voltage Core. With this module, you can play polyphonic modules in Unison mode, with all voices playing the same note. The Detune knob detunes each voice a different amount, so that the average tuning of all voices will remain at the original frequency. The end result? MASSIVE sound!

Watch this video demo of the Poly Unison module, playing 16 detuned voices:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iUj20JIi5U

Also, from now until January 1st, take advantage of our holiday sale! Voltage Modular Core + Electro Drums is available for only $99. That's 100 modules for only $99, with more on the way.

And yes, we've got a LOT more cool stuff due out very soon. I'll continue to keep the KVR community in the loop!

All the best,
Dan @ Cherry Audio

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Nice, so the MPE module should work well with Bitwig :D
Amazon: why not use an alternative

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