KVR Audio

Elektronisch · Post by **Elektronisch** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:06 am

HcDoom wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:14 pm Anything that can make heavily detuned and modern/aggressive sounds is good. Be it voicing or global unison, global detune...or all three together.

No i mean literaly example songs, because its a very broad definition

But anyways here is an example i understud you are seeking for https://clyp.it/phgi01lh

Also dont forget that most of prodcers actually use post processing on theyr leads and thats in the second place, first place different layers of lead sounds

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:08 am

THE INTRANCER wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:32 am
EvilDragon wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:45 pm
Use mousewheel!

I find that to be just as bad. (My own mouse goes better forward than backward, and as a gaming mouse, is quite stiff), and other than that, it's slow and feels like you're endlessly scrolling.

Get a better mouse that does not have a stiff mousewheel?

Logitech MX Master here, the wheel can be toggled between ratchet (clicky) and smooth. Pretty darn great, since in smooth mode it works much faster.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:50 am

Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:01 am
EvilDragon wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:45 pm
Urs wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:24 pmhehehe, thankfully it won't save with preset though
So I found out

So this stuff needs to be enabled as storable in presets from your side?
Yep.

Do you really think it makes sense though? Wouldn't, say, 40x unison be better / fewer concepts clashing? I'm not really sure it makes much sense when a concurrent concept is already at the core of the synth.

Well... from my quick tests it DOES sound different. i.e. a 9 voice osc unison will sound different than 3 voice osc unison coupled with 3x voice stack, where you can set the detunings yourself... So obviously with 16 voice osc unison and a few voices stacked at different detunings, you can offset those whole voices by whatever amount, widening the detuning even more, until you reach the famous brown note/diarrhoea

So I dunno. I guess there is some viability there. Otherwise I suppose Virus wouldn't have done it?

I'm not saying you should do it officially, but perhaps just sneakily allow voice stack parameters to be stored in presets in one of next revs, so that crafty people can make their own skins with the feature, heh heh heh (or should I say ho ho ho?)

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:17 am

Well, I might also try 3/5/7x unison saw wavetables today. That's less code in a uhm script than required to try any of the other options.

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:19 am

As someone who buys and uses synths to make music, not to give their developers and other people on the internet a hard time about them

this is a great update for me! Hive's sonic capabilities have been massively expanded without compromising on workflow. The wavetable engine has been integrated perfectly in my opinion and I'm grateful that a conscious decision was made to keep things simple/focused here. If I want to go deep and create my own tables, I can learn the script or use any of the other existing tools/synths out there. I'm happy that u-he decided not to go down the kitchen sink route and throw an editor in just because it's the done thing now and more features = more better. My only wish for the WT engine is a free-running/host sync button and a range knob within the hexagon. Much like the dedicated vibrato LFO, this would free up the main LFOs for other duties and speed up the workflow, by allowing the tables to be animated at source.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:23 am

Global unsion is something I miss in many soft synths. It's different to per-osc unison because it multiplies the whole signal path with the oscillators, filters, LFOs etc. Actually it's useflul not only for mega-super-whatever saws.

What I like about Virus/Viper global unson is the LFO phase offset knob, which shifts LFO phases between voices. E.g., if you have a patch based on pulse wave with pulse width modulated by LFO, you can use global unison with LFO phase offset to create lush and smooth string-like patches with no supersaw involved.

I think adding global unison with voice count selector, detune, pan spread and LFO phase offset knobs would pretty much fit the Hive concept because it's only three extra knobs and one extra selector giving some workflow enhancements and interesting sound-design possibilities.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:31 am

Also yeah, with global unison, it's totally useful to have a "unison voice count" modulator, so you can offset stuff for different parameters in mod matrix... Now THAT makes a lot of sense, and would also not require any new UI controls. Plus, it would allow creating even more different patches due to added flexibility of the unison voice count modulator...

(By the way, with the voice stack hack... both oscs with both subs (set to =) and 16 unison across both oscs (=64 oscillators) and 8 voices stack (=256 oscillators) is about 2.5% CPU on my i7-6700K, which is totally rad!)

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:39 am

PieBerger wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:19 amMy only wish for the WT engine is a free-running/host sync button and a range knob within the hexagon.

An auto range / end position parameter is definitely something we'd look into, as is a syncing option. We need to be very careful about these things though, any addition to Hive might water down the concept.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:57 am

recursive one wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:23 amWhat I like about Virus/Viper global unson is the LFO phase offset knob, which shifts LFO phases between voices. E.g., if you have a patch based on pulse wave with pulse width modulated by LFO, you can use global unison with LFO phase offset to create lush and smooth string-like patches with no supersaw involved.

In ACE/Bazille/Diva we have a Voice Stack modulator and a "map type of thing" which lets you modulate anything differently across the stacked voices. LFO phase is just one of the options.

recursive one wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:23 amI think adding global unison with voice count selector, detune, pan spread and LFO phase offset knobs would pretty much fit the Hive concept because it's only three extra knobs and one extra selector giving some workflow enhancements and interesting sound-design possibilities.

The problem with an addition like that is, one can't go back.

We have to weigh pros and cons. For instance, the importance of not being able to kill the CPU. Currently you can't. But if we give Hive 32 or even 64 voices, you will. And then we need to enable muticore processing (which ED can try from the UI as well

). And someone will make patches that only work that way. And someone else will spread the word, much like what I've seen elsewhere. E.g. Dune has faster sawtooth playback than Hive, but one can create patches that wear the CPU down. I often see people complain about CPU, and that's certainly because once you give people the option, they will want to use it. It adds another dimension of why this and that.

Therefore, I find it important to first explore all other alternatives.

And of course, Hive doesn't need to be able to do everything.

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:00 am

Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:39 am
PieBerger wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:19 amMy only wish for the WT engine is a free-running/host sync button and a range knob within the hexagon.
An auto range / end position parameter is definitely something we'd look into, as is a syncing option. We need to be very careful about these things though, any addition to Hive might water down the concept.

Great, it's enough to know they will be considered at least! I did read in the Hive thread in the u-he forum, that you were considering additional LFOs for the v2 update. If these were realised, I would be quite happy to use those instead of a dedicated LFO in the hexagon (as would other users I suspect). While it would be slightly more convenient, it's quite "cosy" in the hexagon already and users, myself included, could always save the routing as a mod matrix preset, to save on mouse clicks.

Elektronisch · Post by **Elektronisch** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:05 am

Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:17 am Well, I might also try 3/5/7x unison saw wavetables today. That's less code in a uhm script than required to try any of the other options.

Im curious about that! But why not to add optional x8 unison on whole synth ?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:15 am

Elektronisch wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:05 am
Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:17 am Well, I might also try 3/5/7x unison saw wavetables today. That's less code in a uhm script than required to try any of the other options.
Im curious about that! But why not to add optional x8 unison on whole synth ?

Check what I wrote a few minutes ago:

viewtopic.php?p=7257326#p7257326

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:15 am

[/quote]

Im curious about that! But why not to add optional x8 unison on whole synth ?

[/quote]

They could call it a differential unison...wait a minute

Elektronisch · Post by **Elektronisch** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:17 am

Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:15 am
Elektronisch wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:05 am
Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:17 am Well, I might also try 3/5/7x unison saw wavetables today. That's less code in a uhm script than required to try any of the other options.
Im curious about that! But why not to add optional x8 unison on whole synth ?
Check what I wrote a few minutes ago:

viewtopic.php?p=7257326#p7257326

Ok...then i have idea, call it not Unison but CPU Killer option instead

Then when people will complain it kills your CPU, answer can be "turn off CPU kIller option, it says it right there - it kills CPU"

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:19 am

Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:57 am In ACE/Bazille/Diva we have a Voice Stack modulator and a "map type of thing" which lets you modulate anything differently across the stacked voices. LFO phase is just one of the options.

Yeah, I do use this in Diva. Actually Diva has become one of my best sources of "trance" leads. Though I'm more into old Astral Projection kind of trance now rather than modern EDM, and Diva is perfect for this.

Urs wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:57 am And of course, Hive doesn't need to be able to do everything.

Sure, and I understand the CPU concerns. Though there probably could be some sort of global voice count limit , e.g. if you use 8x unison at each of two ocillators you can't use more than 2x global or something. Above a certain amount of voices adding any further ones won't change the sound much while still taxing the CPU anyway.

Btw, I don't own Hive (yet?) but I have to admit that at the current price and with the wavetable addition it's very tempting.

u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more