aka Victor Hayden. Cousin of Don Van Vliet (Captain Beefheart).
Granted, he's got just ONE musical credit on ONE record album - but it's one of the greatest rock and roll albums of all time, "Troutmaskreplica" by Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band". He allegedly played bass clarinet.
His name will be forever etched in my memory for the following lines:
"Fast and bulbous!
That's right, The Mascara Snake! Fast and bulbous!
Bulbous also tapered."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mascara_Snake
RIP The Mascara Snake
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- KVRAF
- 2357 posts since 24 Nov, 2012
from wikipedia " in which he and Beefheart agree that some unknown thing is "fast and bulbous"."SODDI wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:20 am aka Victor Hayden. Cousin of Don Van Vliet (Captain Beefheart).
Granted, he's got just ONE musical credit on ONE record album - but it's one of the greatest rock and roll albums of all time, "Troutmaskreplica" by Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band". He allegedly played bass clarinet.
His name will be forever etched in my memory for the following lines:
"Fast and bulbous!
That's right, The Mascara Snake! Fast and bulbous!
Bulbous also tapered."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mascara_Snake
I have thought "fast and bulbous, bulbous also tapered" is referencing the clarinet
what you don't know only makes you stronger
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- KVRAF
- 35294 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Yes very memorable line - love Trout Mask lyrics, so playful.SODDI wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:20 am aka Victor Hayden. Cousin of Don Van Vliet (Captain Beefheart).
Granted, he's got just ONE musical credit on ONE record album - but it's one of the greatest rock and roll albums of all time, "Troutmaskreplica" by Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band". He allegedly played bass clarinet.
His name will be forever etched in my memory for the following lines:
"Fast and bulbous!
That's right, The Mascara Snake! Fast and bulbous!
Bulbous also tapered."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mascara_Snake
RIP I guess
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Trout Mask was created in perhaps the weirdest M.O. I've ever heard about.
Vliet, having no experience with the piano at all before, decided to 'write' the project at the piano.
So he would play around on it, and finding a bit of rhythm and melodic shape he liked, John {"Drumbo"} French would have to transcribe it (short little phrases or motifs) onto notation.
Then, with a collection of these snippets, string them together to form a composition. And the story goes, he would decide who plays what.
Supposedly Vliet would enjoy final say over the shape, although I don't know how that works other than instrumentation changes since it was all notated and French is the one who knew from notation. If there was a re-ordering... sure. Sounds like a huge PITA sort of workflow to me. Given the squalor and tensions of the environment it's amazing anything got done, let alone the whole album.
Vliet, Beefheart really liked to mythologize everything, saying the whole album was written in 8 hours and later saying that "all" the drum parts for everything he did was all exactly written by himself. When probably very little (if any) was, in my estimation, having John French's detailed descriptions of how he worked incessantly on his own parts through the creation of this 'masterpiece' to go by. But the germ of this style was Beefheart, while it never happens without John French dutifully carrying things to conclusion. But there was *no* room for improvisation by the band.
Don van Vliet was an extremely creative man, but I'm not so much a fan because of all the lying. He did tell John French he was at one time diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, as though this should excuse some of his behavior. A lot of violence from him in those days.
I have the impression that 'Fast and bulbous' referred to Frank's nostalgia for 1940s automobiles in the first place. "It's the blimp, Frank!". But he could have adopted the saying and then used it to talk about that. This order of references is not documented I don't think. But it seems like Vliet to appropriate a thing and run with it as his own.
Vliet, having no experience with the piano at all before, decided to 'write' the project at the piano.
So he would play around on it, and finding a bit of rhythm and melodic shape he liked, John {"Drumbo"} French would have to transcribe it (short little phrases or motifs) onto notation.
Then, with a collection of these snippets, string them together to form a composition. And the story goes, he would decide who plays what.
Supposedly Vliet would enjoy final say over the shape, although I don't know how that works other than instrumentation changes since it was all notated and French is the one who knew from notation. If there was a re-ordering... sure. Sounds like a huge PITA sort of workflow to me. Given the squalor and tensions of the environment it's amazing anything got done, let alone the whole album.
Vliet, Beefheart really liked to mythologize everything, saying the whole album was written in 8 hours and later saying that "all" the drum parts for everything he did was all exactly written by himself. When probably very little (if any) was, in my estimation, having John French's detailed descriptions of how he worked incessantly on his own parts through the creation of this 'masterpiece' to go by. But the germ of this style was Beefheart, while it never happens without John French dutifully carrying things to conclusion. But there was *no* room for improvisation by the band.
Don van Vliet was an extremely creative man, but I'm not so much a fan because of all the lying. He did tell John French he was at one time diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, as though this should excuse some of his behavior. A lot of violence from him in those days.
I have the impression that 'Fast and bulbous' referred to Frank's nostalgia for 1940s automobiles in the first place. "It's the blimp, Frank!". But he could have adopted the saying and then used it to talk about that. This order of references is not documented I don't think. But it seems like Vliet to appropriate a thing and run with it as his own.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
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- KVRAF
- 2357 posts since 24 Nov, 2012
nice analysis - I think for some people the mental buzz when they "get it" (understand an idea) is the same as when they come up with an idea - that may even be more or less universal. But for some people that buzz is very strong - one of the strongest feelings they get - and they become confused as to whether they have created an idea or are just "getting" an idea they have heard. Because the mental feeling is the same for them either way.jancivil wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:56 pm Trout Mask was created in perhaps the weirdest M.O. I've ever heard about.
Vliet, having no experience with the piano at all before, decided to 'write' the project at the piano.
So he would play around on it, and finding a bit of rhythm and melodic shape he liked, John {"Drumbo"} French would have to transcribe it (short little phrases or motifs) onto notation.
Then, with a collection of these snippets, string them together to form a composition. And the story goes, he would decide who plays what.
Supposedly Vliet would enjoy final say over the shape, although I don't know how that works other than instrumentation changes since it was all notated and French is the one who knew from notation. If there was a re-ordering... sure. Sounds like a huge PITA sort of workflow to me. Given the squalor and tensions of the environment it's amazing anything got done, let alone the whole album.
Vliet, Beefheart really liked to mythologize everything, saying the whole album was written in 8 hours and later saying that "all" the drum parts for everything he did was all exactly written by himself. When probably very little (if any) was, in my estimation, having John French's detailed descriptions of how he worked incessantly on his own parts through the creation of this 'masterpiece' to go by. But the germ of this style was Beefheart, while it never happens without John French dutifully carrying things to conclusion. But there was *no* room for improvisation by the band.
Don van Vliet was an extremely creative man, but I'm not so much a fan because of all the lying. He did tell John French he was at one time diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, as though this should excuse some of his behavior. A lot of violence from him in those days.
I have the impression that 'Fast and bulbous' referred to Frank's nostalgia for 1940s automobiles in the first place. "It's the blimp, Frank!". But he could have adopted the saying and then used it to talk about that. This order of references is not documented I don't think. But it seems like Vliet to appropriate a thing and run with it as his own.
On the other hand some people are unscrupulous lying scumbags who will rip off an idea and claim undue credit at the drop of a hat.
what you don't know only makes you stronger
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Watching the video of Andreyev's interview of French (I only watched around half of it, still, it goes on a bit), I'm struck by the fact of French coming back to work with Vliet repeatedly even though he knows it's not a good idea to. Because those weird ideas, which he's intimately involved in, or seminally involved in, are so compelling. And now in further bands it became a style. And I have to suppose an adopted methodology beyond that initial mode of operation.
I once wrote the better part of an album for someone - and the reviews of it all center on what I made because here's the meat - and it comes out and he's put his name on all of it, first. For coming up with the drum parts. Like any drummer that comes up with the drum parts is also one of the composers of it. And some of the tracks credit everyone who played on the track; and this was not improvised/collective composition, I had it all written out including the bass parts. (There was one thing where I had to write a middle contrasting section right there in the studio and the bass player didn't like it and wouldn't play it. He wrote 0% of the track, but noooo.) I never forgave him for it. I mean I'm reading a rave review of my compos and I'm just the guitar player on it in the press.
I once wrote the better part of an album for someone - and the reviews of it all center on what I made because here's the meat - and it comes out and he's put his name on all of it, first. For coming up with the drum parts. Like any drummer that comes up with the drum parts is also one of the composers of it. And some of the tracks credit everyone who played on the track; and this was not improvised/collective composition, I had it all written out including the bass parts. (There was one thing where I had to write a middle contrasting section right there in the studio and the bass player didn't like it and wouldn't play it. He wrote 0% of the track, but noooo.) I never forgave him for it. I mean I'm reading a rave review of my compos and I'm just the guitar player on it in the press.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
There is a certain charm to some of the outlandish things Vliet would say, like on Letterman, that are just not believable if you know anything but he's going to run with it anyway.
There is an amazing video of his mother, Sue with a cardboard cutout of Don on a stick in the dirt saying "This is my son, Don..." IIRC it's after he'd died.
Reminiscent to me of Dada, and 'This is not a pipe".
There is an amazing video of his mother, Sue with a cardboard cutout of Don on a stick in the dirt saying "This is my son, Don..." IIRC it's after he'd died.
Reminiscent to me of Dada, and 'This is not a pipe".
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- KVRAF
- 6095 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
I love this record. I've bought 3 copies of the LPs over the years. As far as I'm concerned it should be mandatory listening. Frownland shows up repeatedly in various guises. As you guys have pointed out it's hard to know if it was intentional or just stoned ramblings, but the use of that chord shape theme throughout is genius. I can do without all of the live cutin stuff like on hair pie. Frank did a lot of that kind of thing as well. In small doses it's ok, but get annoying ... yes even the "fast and bulbous" part LOL. Anyhow, Big Joan, Wild life the hobo chang song and others are great extensions of Frownland. I don't know why, but whenever I hear the term "angular" this is what I think of.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- KVRAF
- 6095 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 35171 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
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- KVRAF
- 6095 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there
yw .. click clack is pretty awesome.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3321 posts since 2 Jul, 2007
If you count the "Dust Blows Forward" compilation, I too have bought 3 copies of that album. Maybe 4, I can't remember, it's near 50 years.SJ_Digriz wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:10 pm I love this record. I've bought 3 copies of the LPs over the years. As far as I'm concerned it should be mandatory listening. Frownland shows up repeatedly in various guises. As you guys have pointed out it's hard to know if it was intentional or just stoned ramblings, but the use of that chord shape theme throughout is genius. I can do without all of the live cutin stuff like on hair pie. Frank did a lot of that kind of thing as well. In small doses it's ok, but get annoying ... yes even the "fast and bulbous" part LOL. Anyhow, Big Joan, Wild life the hobo chang song and others are great extensions of Frownland. I don't know why, but whenever I hear the term "angular" this is what I think of.
The Magic Band were MONSTERS on Troutmask - all of them. Like Stooges-type/level monsters. Harkleroad and Cotton play these jagged weird angular (to quote someone or other) counterpoints to each other. I'd call out the tracks "My Human Gets Me Blues", "Hair Pie Bake 2' and "Veteran's Day Poppy" in addition to the cuts others have mentioned. And "Pachuco Cadaver".
I think a lot of the presentation and incidentals were out of producer Zappa's Bizarre/Straight label's freakshow. I was first exposed to the Troutmask tracks on a Zappa sampler/compilation called "Zapped" what I got for $3 mail order. Wild Man Fischer, Alice Cooper and The GTOs were on it too.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105853 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
