Fathom Synth Development Thread

[FathomSynth]

Yes, I also tend to use 96K a lot, so obviously I'll make sure it works for that as well.

I value your comments on CUDA since it will be good to get as much information as I can from users before I go ahead with the design. It will be one of the most important features planned for next year.

If you want, post your song's sound cloud link when you are done, since I may want to link to it on the web site.

[bmanic]

Just got Fathom.

Quick question: How on earth do I delete modulation destinations?. I know how to delete an actual modulator but how do I delete a destination? I can't figure this out nor is it mentioned in the manual as far as I know.

[FathomSynth]

Generally everything is deleted using the Delete button depending on what is currently selected.

To delete a modulation expand the mod slat and hit Delete.

In more detail:
In the Modulation Matrix choose the modulation you want to delete.
Click on the modulator icon to expand the mod slat.
Expanded mod slats take up two rows.
Hit the delete button while the mod slat is expanded.
After the confirmation message hit Delete again.
The modulation is now deleted.

[rollasoc]

CUDA GPU processing will work with any NVIDIA card.

Which I don't have on my music PC (but do on my animation PC).

I like Fathom synth and it does need optimising, but I don't like the idea of having to spend hundreds of pounds on a new graphics card to run it.

I have just been through this hell, with some animation software, that now uses NVIDIA's Iray. On my laptop, with an AMD (which doesn't support IRay) card, it took me 9 hours to render an image in CPU.
The same image took two and a half minutes on my newly built custom Animation PC.

I like the theoretical concept of this and one developer needs to probably try this for others to follow. But at the moment, I couldn't justify the expense just to optimise one synth. Any optimisation needs to work across AMD and NVIDIA (and Intel might be joining the card market again next year) video cards and not be tied to one supplier.

[zzz00m]

CUDA GPU processing will work with any NVIDIA card.

Interesting idea. I think it's great that you are always looking for ways to improve Fathom!

But there are also many laptops that will run DAW and soft synths fine, but only come with integrated video.

So IMHO limiting CPU optimization to GPU equipped computers would exclude many current users from the benefits.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

Just got Fathom.

Quick question: How on earth do I delete modulation destinations?. I know how to delete an actual modulator but how do I delete a destination? I can't figure this out nor is it mentioned in the manual as far as I know.

Not tryin to be mean or a smart ass ......There are are a lot of thing about this synth that are not like anything else out there. Re reading the manual will help alot. Also keep in mind Everett ( the developer ) is one of the best at keeping the manual current with updates. So reading after a significant update is a must as well. I have read it several times and still ask questions where the answer is...."read the manual...page xx."

But to reinforce the topic....be sure that the modular is open before you press delete. This has burned me a few times. Once he added the confirmation button I have been burned less but it still happens.

[FathomSynth]

SM, Thanks.

So for CUDA, Be aware that just because your PC or Laptop does not have a separate video card does not necessarily mean that it does not have a GPU chip set buried in the motherboard somewhere. So it may still be able to perform GPU processing. If you can play a modern game on it with any sort of 3D graphics then it has to have a GPU on it.

I won't leave anyone out in the cold, so if I go to the trouble of parallel-izing some of the code for the GPU I will go ahead and enable vector SIMD for that code as well. Also if your system has an AMD video card I will make sure the new code runs on that as well.

[Tj Shredder]

Wasn't there openGL/openCL or a successor which should run on any card? I think Apple ditched it in their system, but that doesn't mean you can't use it...

[zzz00m]

Wasn't there openGL/openCL or a successor which should run on any card? I think Apple ditched it in their system, but that doesn't mean you can't use it...

Yup, OpenGL is a graphics software library https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL that can run on any processor. But it is CPU bound, unless you have a discrete graphics processor.

That's not the same thing as using graphics hardware processors for other tasks, such as offloading digital audio signal processing tasks to the graphics hardware.

[zzz00m]

SM, Thanks.

So for CUDA, Be aware that just because your PC or Laptop does not have a separate video card does not necessarily mean that it does not have a GPU chip set buried in the motherboard somewhere. So it may still be able to perform GPU processing. If you can play a modern game on it with any sort of 3D graphics then it has to have a GPU on it.

That pretty much excludes the integrated Intel HD graphics. https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/gpu/ ... 630+review They are great with 2D HD, even multi-monitors, but 3D acceleration is very low end. Modern games are out.

I won't leave anyone out in the cold, so if I go to the trouble of parallel-izing some of the code for the GPU I will go ahead and enable vector SIMD for that code as well. Also if your system has an AMD video card I will make sure the new code runs on that as well.

Thanks for that reassurance!

[bmanic]

Generally everything is deleted using the Delete button depending on what is currently selected.

To delete a modulation expand the mod slat and hit Delete.

In more detail:
In the Modulation Matrix choose the modulation you want to delete.
Click on the modulator icon to expand the mod slat.
Expanded mod slats take up two rows.
Hit the delete button while the mod slat is expanded.
After the confirmation message hit Delete again.
The modulation is now deleted.

Ok I figured it out. One of the main issues with this synth is definitely usability. It has a bit of weird logic and requires quite a lot of things to be done with multiple clicks where things could be much easier. How about just adding a tiny 'x' or something that could easily be clicked to delete a modulation source or destination. Or just allow some form of key modifier? ALT+CTRL+Click or something relatively "safe" like that.

You should definitely add this part much clearer in the manual and actually separate modulation source (which you call modulator) and modulation destination (the TARGET of the modulation). Nowhere in the manual does it mention how to delete a destination when you are using the same modulation source. The thing is, Fathom masks a destination as identical to a source. This can be very confusing. Anyhow, it should definitely be mentioned in the manual for synth veterans who will be looking for the distinction.

You can also quickly run into a thing like this:



That's 12 unused LFO modulators that are impossible to get off that list. No matter how many times I've "deleted" the modulator, those do not go away. If there is a + sign somewhere that allows you to add something new there should also always be the counterpart, a - sign or an 'x' to remove stuff. This is basic software user interface development 101 here. Plenty of these 101 basics are missing in Fathom.

Top notch very unqiue sound quality to the whole thing though. This is the reason why I bought it and I can live with the quirks as long as I know about them.

I definitely can not recommend this as a "mainstream" synth for most people until it's much more polished and has a much stronger identity (in this case the sounds it comes bundled with).

Anyhow, looking forward to how this thing develops over the years to come!

Cheers!
bM

[bmanic]

Just got Fathom.

Quick question: How on earth do I delete modulation destinations?. I know how to delete an actual modulator but how do I delete a destination? I can't figure this out nor is it mentioned in the manual as far as I know.

Not tryin to be mean or a smart ass ......There are are a lot of thing about this synth that are not like anything else out there.

Like what? There are some unique aspects about the synth but not many. Most of the so called "complexity" or uniqueness that some people would want you to believe are simply due to a strange logic and user interface. The actual meat and bones of the synth comprise of very common elements. The attention to detail seems to have been placed on sound quality alone (at the cost of massive CPU usage). Hopefully that same attention to detail will be put on UI development and streamlining the experience in the future.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

@Bmanic

Exactly,
there are things about the gui that are unique. Such as by positioning your mouse just above or below a parameter knob you can fine tune it with the mouse wheel....really cool!

The browser itself is a bit unique.

Modulating a modulator is also one of those things that would not be intuitive.

Sometimes things seem a bit clumsy ( to me) but that is that is where Everett's vision kicks in and we adapt. Some of the things I used to think were combersome turned out to be quite fluid. Ex. the way you can load wave index 1 skip to index 16 and add another. Then hit fill and generate a table that morphs between the two. This has to be done quite precise or it doesn't work.

WT on the right doesn't function exactly the same as the left.

Theses are a few examples that you may discover by tinkering but may not.

I still do not quite have my head wrapped around the LFO with all the parameters over time. But if I remember right if you leave the main period set to one some of the others have no effect.

Be awhare of the mix knob of the 2nd stage in the distortion section it is zctuslly a balance between the two stages.

and on and.

Always feel free to ask about things. There are several folk who have dug deep into Fathom and have a head start on you. Most of which are eager to share.

[FathomSynth]

Rats, SM beat me to it, but I’ll post anyway.

TJ,

Open CL was a great idea, but I’ve done a lot of reading and CUDA has a better implementation. But to your point, I will probably use either Open CL or DirectCompute for the AMD video cards.

zzz00m,

As long as the GPU chipset is made by NVidia we should be able to use CUDA, if not I will do my best to provide another option for laptop owners and other small form factor PC’s to get the same parallel processing power.

bmanic,

Hi. Thanks for your comments. Your attention to detail above is the kind of feedback that helped me a lot in the past.

Actually the manual does tell you how to delete a modulation (as opposed to a modulator). Section 6.4.4 “Deleting a Modulation”.

However, your point still stands because if I had added the section “Deleting Modulations” right after “Adding Modulations” like any sane person instead of burying it mysteriously in the next section, then you probably would have spotted it, so I will make that change in the manual now.

I personally don’t find it confusing to use the “Delete” button to delete things, but in all fairness many people have made the same comment you did, so I will put a big red Delete “X” button on the expanded mod slat to delete the modulation. Sorry I cannot put it on the top of the mod slat since there is simply no space.

I can tell from your phrase “mask a destination as identical to source” that you are accustomed to using a Synth that provides the modulation matrix level of indirection using “Sources” (modulators) and “Destinations” (modulations of a target dial).

The point being that you want a single modulator capable of hitting multiple dials with some characteristics of the modulation changed such as add, subtract or multiply.

Fathom provides the exact same indirection but with different terminology. Modulators are connected to target dials using “Modulations” where multiple modulations can use the same Modulator.

Despite the difference in terminology, this should provide you with the exact same capabilities. I pride Fathom on being an advanced synth for modulation, so if this is not giving you what you need please be specific and I will try to add the feature.

So for your list of 12 LFO’s, it looks like you were adding LFO’s without being aware of the Existing Modulator section. If you want to use a single LFO to modulate different modulations then you can select it from the Existing Modulator list.

Also, I’m not sure why you are having trouble deleting modulators. I just tried it myself to make sure and it is working great. It works just like any other delete, just click on the modulator under Existing Modulator and hit the Delete button.

But again, to your point, I will add a dedicated Delete “X” button on the modulators also.

We will be making a major marketing push for Fathom early in 2019 after the GPU high speed CPU processing is complete, so if you can define in more detail what you mean by “Polished” there is a good chance those features will make it in very quickly.

Hehe, If I made the metal dials any brighter you might need sun-glasses.

Bmanic,

In regard to “Meat and bones comprised of very common elements.”

Many aspects of Fathom are common, If not then I would be bombarded with requests for the features lacking. (I know this from experience.) This is true for any major soft synth.

I admit CPU is still the one big weakness for Fathom, but that will change after I do the GPU processing in January of this coming 2019.

General comments such as “streamlining the UI” are useful, but keep in mind when I actually implement user feature requests, I will need exact details. So please think about exactly what you want to see.

Modulation Click and Drag.

Just for everyone’s info in regard to modulation, soon I will be adding the ability to simply click and drag modulators onto target dials, and this should eliminate most of the cries of agony over Fathom’s mod matrix.

Original Features?

Most users would probably not agree. This is proven by the upgrade downloads being almost always equal to the total number of purchases.

The whole reason I created Fathom is because for years I did my own music and went through about 15 soft synths, spending $500 on at least two of them, and literally none of them could do what I wanted for truly original sound design.

This is why I added features such as the following.

1. Open signal flow, 2. Unlimited audio units. 3. Unlimited modulations. 4. Full screen wave draw. 5. Full screen Bezier waveforms. 6. Bezier envelopes. 7. WAV import/export. 8. Double sided wave tables. 9. Wave table math functions. 10. Wave table skip cycle processing. 11. Non-linear detune. 12. Separate control over all detune channels. 13. Real time noise math. 14. Multiple zero delay filter algorithms. 15. Zero delay partial filters. 16. Modulatable modulator periods. 17. Modulatable mod amounts. 18. Continuously resizable GUI. 19. Configurable GUI panels and backgrounds. 20. GUI color pickers for all graphs, lines and fills. 21. Multiple GUI dial options. 22. Center view overlays. 23. Ability to superimpose spectrum graphs and note roll below the signal flow. 24. Twelve band graphical EQ with click and drag points. 25. Multichannel Phaser. 26. Multichannel Digital Delay with channel routing. 27. Fractal Delay with variable reflections and micro-chorusing. 28. Built in multi-mode filters for Phaser, Delay and all Reverbs. 29. Real time 3D graphs. 30. Frequency domain distortion. 31. Tunable noise generators. 32. Connectable FM and AM for any oscillator. 33. Microtuning. 34. Per sample modulation for all modulators (not per block). 35. Wave buffer spline interpolation.

Could you easily find one synth with each of the above features. Yes, of course.
Could you find one other synth with ALL of these features in one synth?

Good luck!

Also, the best feature of Fathom is actually none of the above, it’s user feature requests that actual go directly into regular product releases.

Few if any major synths do this. For example the best sounding soft synth ever made is probably Sylenth, their last software release was last May and it included bug fixes and a new skin.

Fathom has had 24 software releases in 2018.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

@Bmanic

I just saw where you showed the list of unused modulators.

I found this to be good and bad.

The good it is easy to resuse env, lfo, seg etc. within a patch. If we could give give these unigue names ( maybe we can now) that would be even better.

The bad.?. If you build one patch off of another and dont delete the exsisting list it can build up quite fast as in your picture.

This is another one of those things that is different but once you get used to it. It is the same as say Synthmaster but you are not limited to the number of Lfo or env etc. But instead of right clicking ( Everett dispises rt click) or draging you simply scroll down to your existing modulators.