KVR Audio

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:35 am

munchkin wrote: That track can have audio and midi effects on it.

Too bad you cant put VST midi effects before a instrument like you can in Tracktion. I'm sure they'll fix that eventually.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:22 am

munchkin quoth ]An example of how to organise synth tracks in a different way to Sonar is how Live 4 does it. A synth is opened in a midi track. That track can have audio and midi effects on it. For multiple outs just open as many tracks as you need and route the synth outs to them.

Sure its an alternative, but once you get to a multitimbral synth, or a drum synth, where you want different MIDI tracks feeding into your synth, and the synth has multiple outs, then you've got three different kinds of track, not two (audio, MIDI, and audio/MIDI-special-mixed-instance-for-softsynths).

Thats far less linear than just having audio tracks and MIDI tracks. To me.

WillieJenkins · Post by **WillieJenkins** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:02 pm

I agree with whyterabbyt.

I thought Live's way of doing it was superior until I loaded Kontakt into Live and tried getting multiple outs to work. YIKES!!!!

I haven't complained about Sonars way since.

uselessmind · Post by **uselessmind** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:10 pm

AD80 wrote:Too bad you cant put VST midi effects before a instrument like you can in Tracktion.

What is a VST Midi Effect?
Anything important?

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:32 pm

uselessmind wrote:
AD80 wrote:Too bad you cant put VST midi effects before a instrument like you can in Tracktion.
What is a VST Midi Effect?
Anything important?

is that one of them trolls, momma?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:41 pm

uselessmind quoth

What is a VST Midi Effect?

Its a VST plugin that affects MIDI.

Anything important?

Yes, if you want to affect MIDI using a VST plugin.

uselessmind · Post by **uselessmind** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:04 pm

spaceman wrote:
uselessmind wrote:
AD80 wrote:Too bad you cant put VST midi effects before a instrument like you can in Tracktion.
What is a VST Midi Effect?
Anything important?
is that one of them trolls, momma?

No,was a serious question.
I never tought of affecting MIDI with a plugin.

@whyterabbyt:
thx for the answering such an obviously stupid question;)

Could you tell me for what this would be necessary and/or give a Hint to find a good Freeware-/Demo-VST?

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:18 pm

there are many midi plugins- you can find some made by music lab, cakewalk includes those with sonar. Jasmine music technology makes a plugin called personal orchestrator that is a midi "backing band". There are all types of midi efx out there, session drummers, arpeggiators, delay efx, etc etc.

uselessmind · Post by **uselessmind** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:55 pm

Oh,now i remember,i never paid much attention to these tools.
Maybe i should take a second look.
Anyhow,thx for the patience

TeeLangSun · Post by **TeeLangSun** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:09 pm

S_A_P wrote:At first I thought that the 1 midi track/1 audio track was a pain as well, but it is INFININTELY more flexible, and I much prefer it now...

Can you elaborate on that? I'm still of a mind that two tracks where only one is typically needed is extra clutter. How is it so useful?

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:46 am

whyterabbyt wrote: Sure its an alternative, but once you get to a multitimbral synth, or a drum synth, where you want different MIDI tracks feeding into your synth, and the synth has multiple outs, then you've got three different kinds of track, not two (audio, MIDI, and audio/MIDI-special-mixed-instance-for-softsynths).

Thats far less linear than just having audio tracks and MIDI tracks. To me.

eric maybe i don't understand ,but Live excels at just this sort of thing, what was the prob. you were having? in live you can feed as many whatever tracks into whatever and out of whatever including multi-outs on instruments...very easy to setup too. what am i missing

Stupid American Pig · Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:11 pm

TeeLangSun wrote:
S_A_P wrote:At first I thought that the 1 midi track/1 audio track was a pain as well, but it is INFININTELY more flexible, and I much prefer it now...
Can you elaborate on that? I'm still of a mind that two tracks where only one is typically needed is extra clutter. How is it so useful?

Well because when I start a track I dont necessarily know how I want it to sound- so say for instance I load up FL studio for a drum part. At first I just route everything to the 1st output and start writing. By the time I get the basics all worked out, I can then say "this snare needs more compression" and route that to a different track.

Or say for instance that you are using a multi out/multi timbral synth, and decide later to add a 2nd part, I can just create another audio track and route the audio through it so that I can apply efx to it individually. Not to mention I can create a 2nd midi channel and route that to the softsynth on a different midi channel.

If you are used to other hosts, say orion or FL studio, I can see how you feel(coz I felt the same way) but once you realize how many options you have with routing audio and midi data, I wont switch back.

As has been said earlier, it makes a softsynth "feel" more like a hardware synth, since they are configured in sonar the same way.

Either way if it *really* bothers you, you could hide the audio track.

WillieJenkins · Post by **WillieJenkins** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:14 pm

stale bread,

Maybe its just how I like my workflow, but I think the idea of the plugin unattached from any physical audio or midi tracks works smoother when dealing with multi-outs. I can use multi-outs in Live fine, it just doesn't feel as 'clean'

On the other side, the way Live handled single out VSTis is much cleaner.

This plays exactly to how I use Live and Sonar tho, so I'm happy with both situations.

LoRez · Post by **LoRez** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:32 pm

S_A_P wrote:
TeeLangSun wrote:
S_A_P wrote:At first I thought that the 1 midi track/1 audio track was a pain as well, but it is INFININTELY more flexible, and I much prefer it now...
Can you elaborate on that? I'm still of a mind that two tracks where only one is typically needed is extra clutter. How is it so useful?
Well because when I start a track I dont necessarily know how I want it to sound- so say for instance I load up FL studio for a drum part. At first I just route everything to the 1st output and start writing. By the time I get the basics all worked out, I can then say "this snare needs more compression" and route that to a different track.

Or say for instance that you are using a multi out/multi timbral synth, and decide later to add a 2nd part, I can just create another audio track and route the audio through it so that I can apply efx to it individually. Not to mention I can create a 2nd midi channel and route that to the softsynth on a different midi channel.

If you are used to other hosts, say orion or FL studio, I can see how you feel(coz I felt the same way) but once you realize how many options you have with routing audio and midi data, I wont switch back.

As has been said earlier, it makes a softsynth "feel" more like a hardware synth, since they are configured in sonar the same way.

Either way if it *really* bothers you, you could hide the audio track.

Well said.

lavoll · Post by **lavoll** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:22 am

we just ordered 10 copies of sonar 4

(for the college of bergen) but it wont be here until mid october.

First official SONAR 4 review is in!