u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
Urs
u-he
23516 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:23 am

recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:18 am
When you have a patch with two or more layers each of them having its own seq/arp pattern, most likely you actually have two distinct instument parts, which you will want at least to process separately in an actual mix. So you need your synth also to be multitimbral. But then why not just to use two instances? This is much easier to handle when you are making an actual musical piece in a DAW and not an "impressive" preset just for the sake of it.
I think it's about economy on the DAW side. Fewer MIDI tracks, fewer channels to manage.

Sounds like a good job for a plug-in like Xlutop Chainer.

chk071
KVRAF
19865 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:26 am

Teksonik wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:04 am
I'd much rather see them work together than have one making snarky comments about the other since I respect them both. :?
I'd agree though that layers is a thing i definitely don't need in a synth. Is that a general disrespect towards Dune or Richard Hoffman? I don't think so. Waldorf Largo is my favorite synth, and it has layers. Tek, i really respect your comments, but, you should consider a bit less black/white thinking, or feel less stepped on the foot, or the need to defend your synth/your developer sometimes. I can understand where you're coming from, and, i often also feel the need to step in, when i see someone whack "my" synthesizer online, but... it's no good in most cases anyway, and, why would i care about someone else's opinion, when it's ultimately my own which should matter the most to my buying preferences?

recursive one
KVRAF
3866 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:38 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:23 am
recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:18 am
When you have a patch with two or more layers each of them having its own seq/arp pattern, most likely you actually have two distinct instument parts, which you will want at least to process separately in an actual mix. So you need your synth also to be multitimbral. But then why not just to use two instances? This is much easier to handle when you are making an actual musical piece in a DAW and not an "impressive" preset just for the sake of it.
I think it's about economy on the DAW side. Fewer MIDI tracks, fewer channels to manage.

Sounds like a good job for a plug-in like Xlutop Chainer.
Maybe it makes sense in case of "lite" DAW versions with restricted amount of channels, but for me this kind of "economy" feels like a workflow nightmare. One daw channel for one melodic part with its own notes, its own automation and processing is optimal.

On the other hand, having multiple sequencers acting as modulation sources within one synth/layer to control different things may be very useful.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23516 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:46 am

recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:38 am
Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:23 am
I think it's about economy on the DAW side. Fewer MIDI tracks, fewer channels to manage.

Sounds like a good job for a plug-in like Xlutop Chainer.
Maybe it makes sense in case of "lite" DAW versions with restricted amount of channels, but for me this kind of "economy" feels like a workflow nightmare. One daw channel for one melodic part with its own notes, its own automation and processing is optimal.
I guess it depends on how people prefer to work. I wouldn't know, I never layer sounds and I hardly make music these days.
On the other hand, having multiple sequencers acting as modulation sources within one synth/layer to control different things may be very useful.
Yep, absolutely. Working on that as we speak! 8)

recursive one
KVRAF
3866 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:09 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:46 am
On the other hand, having multiple sequencers acting as modulation sources within one synth/layer to control different things may be very useful.
Yep, absolutely. Working on that as we speak! 8)
:tu:

I think ill wait for the actual v.2 release to see what it all finally looks like, but I have to say that Hive becomes more and more tempting.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23516 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 am

recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:09 am
Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:46 am
On the other hand, having multiple sequencers acting as modulation sources within one synth/layer to control different things may be very useful.
Yep, absolutely. Working on that as we speak! 8)
:tu:

I think ill wait for the actual v.2 release to see what it all finally looks like, but I have to say that Hive becomes more and more tempting.
It won't be overly different. The UI won't be monochromatic anymore (e.g. FX will be colour coded, therefore much easier to edit). I'm sneaking in my utterly simplified take on Make Noise Maths. Just 4 knobs and 4 drop downs (as of now...), properly labelled. You won't notice these unless you look carefully.

I'm furthermore trying (!) to sneak in a single (!) 8-step baby version of what's called "Performer" in Massive, or "Stepper" (I think?) in Spire. Only, this one produces 4 individual control signals at once. It's like, while you only have very few steps to edit (extensively edit - including ratchets and smoothly morphing shapes!), you can make 4 different selections of these steps and run them parallel at different speeds and order. That's what I'm working on, and so far I'm very happy. I think it's going to be the fastest way to playfully create complex modulations (or just additional envelopes/LFOs) in any such synth. We just really, really, really have to make sure it fits Hive and does exactly what we need.

I can't wait to show you guys... but because we're really sneaky, we won't have screenshots until after the current sale runs out... gotta oblige to some of those dreadful marketing rules :oops:

PieBerger
KVRist
247 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:59 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 am
recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:09 am
Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:46 am
On the other hand, having multiple sequencers acting as modulation sources within one synth/layer to control different things may be very useful.
Yep, absolutely. Working on that as we speak! 8)
:tu:

I think ill wait for the actual v.2 release to see what it all finally looks like, but I have to say that Hive becomes more and more tempting.
It won't be overly different. The UI won't be monochromatic anymore (e.g. FX will be colour coded, therefore much easier to edit). I'm sneaking in my utterly simplified take on Make Noise Maths. Just 4 knobs and 4 drop downs (as of now...), properly labelled. You won't notice these unless you look carefully.

I'm furthermore trying (!) to sneak in a single (!) 8-step baby version of what's called "Performer" in Massive, or "Stepper" (I think?) in Spire. Only, this one produces 4 individual control signals at once. It's like, while you only have very few steps to edit (extensively edit - including ratchets and smoothly morphing shapes!), you can make 4 different selections of these steps and run them parallel at different speeds and order. That's what I'm working on, and so far I'm very happy. I think it's going to be the fastest way to playfully create complex modulations (or just additional envelopes/LFOs) in any such synth. We just really, really, really have to make sure it fits Hive and does exactly what we need.

I can't wait to show you guys... but because we're really sneaky, we won't have screenshots until after the current sale runs out... gotta oblige to some of those dreadful marketing rules :oops:
With the shiny features coming up again, what are the prospects of the new slot modifier features being extended to include the "hardwired" modulation knobs eg Filter Env/LFO Depth, Keytrack etc.? I appreciate that a visual implementation is unlikely due to space restrictions on the interface, but could we expect the modifiers to be available on these knobs via a right-click menu, as we have at the moment with the modslots?
Always Read the Manual!

User avatar
Biome_Digital
KVRian
687 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:01 am

Oh wow! Something like massives performer would be great

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
15459 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:15 am

Teksonik wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:59 am
Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:46 am
I don't like layers. For me, they're the antithesis to elegance in synth design.
And that's why Dune 3 can do sounds that Hive could not even dream of doing.
I can make as many layers as I want with Hive... and fade them according velocity, or do keyboard splits etc. etc.

Having layers in a synth does not make it capable of any more sounds. Dune can make sounds Hive cannot because it has features like FM, not because of the layers.

User avatar
Urs
u-he
23516 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:27 am

PieBerger wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:59 am
With the shiny features coming up again, what are the prospects of the new slot modifier features being extended to include the "hardwired" modulation knobs eg Filter Env/LFO Depth, Keytrack etc.? I appreciate that a visual implementation is unlikely due to space restrictions on the interface, but could we expect the modifiers to be available on these knobs via a right-click menu, as we have at the moment with the modslots?
The hardwired ones are a tad more difficult to implement. It's not just a change on one single Module (ModMatrix), it's a change in any module - and therein any parameter - which has hard wired modulations. That is *a lot* of refactoring, even though it might be bearable in Hive (but not, say, Zebra). So yeah, it's on our radar, but not in plain sight.

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
15459 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:44 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:23 am
recursive one wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:18 am
When you have a patch with two or more layers each of them having its own seq/arp pattern, most likely you actually have two distinct instument parts, which you will want at least to process separately in an actual mix. So you need your synth also to be multitimbral. But then why not just to use two instances? This is much easier to handle when you are making an actual musical piece in a DAW and not an "impressive" preset just for the sake of it.
I think it's about economy on the DAW side. Fewer MIDI tracks, fewer channels to manage.

Sounds like a good job for a plug-in like Xlutop Chainer.
With multiple instances, I am never dead-ended... each instance has its own FX chain and that can include VST's.

Inside one synth with layers but not multi-timbral, if I want to adjust one layer in some way that the synth does not provide, then I am dead-ended. I have to recreate that layer outside that instance of the synth.

Both Live and Bitwig provide good layering capabilities on a single track. Some other DAW's do too. I find that capability makes more sense at the DAW level. Then any synth is easily layered with itself or any other synth.

The advantage of layers in a synth is for those selling soundsets and for those that regularly use multiple DAW's and so they can quickly use that layered sound in multiple places.

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
15459 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:49 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 am
I can't wait to show you guys... but because we're really sneaky, we won't have screenshots until after the current sale runs out... gotta oblige to some of those dreadful marketing rules :oops:
The easy solution there is just end the sale today!! :hihi:

AnX
KVRAF
4370 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:55 am

pdxindy wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:44 am


The advantage of layers in a synth is for those selling soundsets and for those that regularly use multiple DAW's and so they can quickly use that layered sound in multiple places.
maybe (i only use 1 host and dont sell presets)

its also usefull for complex sounds such as brass, strings, drums etc where you want it all in one synth. having the transients, body, tail etc all on a diff instance is a royal pain.

PieBerger
KVRist
247 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:49 am

Urs wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:27 am
PieBerger wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:59 am
With the shiny features coming up again, what are the prospects of the new slot modifier features being extended to include the "hardwired" modulation knobs eg Filter Env/LFO Depth, Keytrack etc.? I appreciate that a visual implementation is unlikely due to space restrictions on the interface, but could we expect the modifiers to be available on these knobs via a right-click menu, as we have at the moment with the modslots?
The hardwired ones are a tad more difficult to implement. It's not just a change on one single Module (ModMatrix), it's a change in any module - and therein any parameter - which has hard wired modulations. That is *a lot* of refactoring, even though it might be bearable in Hive (but not, say, Zebra). So yeah, it's on our radar, but not in plain sight.
I had my suspicions that it would not be so straight forward, hence why they were not part of the 1.2 update. It's good to know they're on the radar at least, thanks for the info!
Always Read the Manual!

Ploki
KVRian
748 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: u-he Hive 1.2 - free update - adds wavetables and more

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:00 pm

i sold serum to buy hive :)

i had serum for 3 years and liked it for what it was, but i really enjoy neatly coded software and my wavetable needs aren't really that complex; just like the sparkiness the synthesis method can produce.

since i prefer running external fx chains anyway, it made sense.

have yet to try dune, but I really liked Hive ever since it came out, wavetable just made me tip over.
It always felt like "EDM"-ish but with some u-he swag.

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