Best Headphones for Mixing

[acYm]

much of BT's earlier work was mixed mainly on 7506's... as a result, there's really no better way to listen to these albums than with a pair of 7506's.

that's something I noticed myself, the mixes I made on the pro900 sound better on them than on anything else, same for those on the ath-m50, and those on the focal spirit pro. to me it's undeniable that headphone mixes are less transparent overall than with monitors.

but, monitoring correction is dependable, plug&play tech at this point, it's not the 90's. even with a non-calibrated profile, my spirit pro's sure sound of a lot more like my monitors do with Sonarworks.

[jochicago]

to me it's undeniable that headphone mixes are less transparent overall than with monitors.

I think we are on the same page about headphones being imperfect, we just have a different approach. My thinking is there's no way that having 50mm drivers on either side of your head is the same as listening to your car speakers, or your laptop speakers, or monitors, or a $50 portable radio, or tiny drivers inside earbuds, etc.

So I don't think of good headphones as "set and forget", and I absolutely don't think of my desktop monitors as perfect either. My mixes sound drastically different on computer speakers. I actually check on 3 things: the monitors, the studio headphones, and the cheap computer speakers. Sometimes it sounds great on monitors + headphones and crap on the speakers, so I have to go back and figure out the problem, because plenty of music sounds good on those cheap speakers. Until it works on all 3 the mix is not done.

About headphone profiles: If you use HD 600/650 you are going to hear weak bass, mellow treble and overly pronounced mids, and end up compensating for it by reversing that curve into a smiley-face type of thing. If you mix like that without being conscious of it you are going to imprint that curve in your mixdown. The DT990 have the opposite effect, they start with a smiley-face curve so if you balance your mix against that you'll end up mixingdown with a reversed curve that looks like the HD 600.

But what if you are conscious of these things? Ideas:
1. Use a tool to profile and "correct" the headphones
2. Make your own eq compensation curve on the master
3. Learn your headphones and mix keeping their curve in mind
4. In addition, reference against other things before you finish the mix

There's no reason that a mix needs to end up sounding like it was mixed in a particular headset. To me that just means that the mixer doesn't yet know their equipment. Same with monitors, the quality of your room treatment, etc. If a mix sounds like it was mixed it in a particular setting, that's a sign of inexperience, not a problem with the tools.

[acYm]

right, just to clarify, when I said "mixes" I was referring to whole production, pretty much.
when you have the approach of doing most of the mixing at the same time as all the composition, sound design, and production elements that happen even before arrangement, it's easier to get "stuck" in the sound of a pair of headphones than monitors, typically.

[risome]

As for how much your ears are worth and your hearing..Priceless.

Exactly. That's why I don't wear headphones unless forced........

there is a volume knob you can use that

[an-electric-heart]

All this talk has me looking into new headphones, as I said I currently use AKG 240s, so there's room for improvement. I'm looking at these three ;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica ... 2561268154

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beyerdynamic-D ... 3559728835

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KRK-KNS-8400-P ... 1564036311

But leaning towards the Audio-Technica and the Beyerdynamic, one's closed and one's open, might be good to have both.

[DJErmac]

The only headphones I can produce and mix with is my Beyerdynamic T1. Its sound is very, very close from my Event Opal monitors.

Every cheaper model I've tried ended with a mix that needed to be restarted from scratch the next day. For example, I really love the sound of the DT880, but I think the sound is too good, I made bad mixing choices with it.

My humble and very personal advice would be : for music production/mixing, get very very very good headphones or get nothing (and wait until you have the money to get a good pair), or you'll be sooooo disappointed.

[Nightpolymath]

Headphones Choice
I think I'm settled on Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO. See this comparison against HD 650:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools ... shold=0.03

Can't speak for the HD650, but I have both the DT990PRO & HD600 and the Sennheiser's frequency response is much flatter.
(I bought the HD600 as an upgrade)

I've got both and 100% agree with this.

[an-electric-heart]

Headphones Choice
I think I'm settled on Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO. See this comparison against HD 650:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools ... shold=0.03

Can't speak for the HD650, but I have both the DT990PRO & HD600 and the Sennheiser's frequency response is much flatter.
(I bought the HD600 as an upgrade)

I wonder why they're doing a shoot out between those two anyway. Aren't the Sennheisers about triple the price of the Beyerdynamic? I'd sure expect the Sennheisers to be better.

[jochicago]

I wonder why they're doing a shoot out between those two anyway. Aren't the Sennheisers about triple the price of the Beyerdynamic? I'd sure expect the Sennheisers to be better.

It's a fair point from the cost perspective, but from my research I would say those two are a sideways choice. With different profiles, it might be a matter of personal preference but not of quality itself.

In fact, from what I've been reading I've heard the HD 650 described in many positive ways, but not as a magnifying glass of frequencies. I've seen that description applied to the DT 990 many times. That's exactly what I want out of my next set of cans. I can EQ it if don't like it's curve, but what matters most to me is that it shines a huge spotlight on every frequency, every detail. I want to hear a reverb end and feel it's too abrupt. I want to crank a saturator to 1% and hear it did something. I don't know how close I can get to that level of detail, but it sounds to me that the DT 990 is the closest I'll get to it this side of the cost of a used Mexi Strat (which is my unit of currency for music purchases ).

[Ph-J]

How is that move to the HD 600 working out for you?

How do they handle themselves in a mix scenario? If you are making micro eq decisions, can you hear all the detail on both?

I'm very happy with them.
I hear details on both, but mostly, I trust what I hear with the HD600 more.
There's a brightness with the DT990 that had me tame frequencies that weren't actually problematic.
It was better with software correction (Sonarworks or Waves NX) but still.

The bass I don't find to be that weak on the HD600 (the HD650 are said to go lower though - I also use the Waves NX correction on the HD600, but I don't find it to make that much of a difference before/after On the DT990, software correction tends to tame some of the bass actually)
To be honest, I'm not sure I can make really accurate decisions on bass with headphones anyway, so I check on various setups regularly.

Not that the DT990 are bad at all (and they are confortable), it's just I would go directly to the HD600 if I had to do it again.

If you have some place around where you can try them both, go for that.

[Ph-J]

I wonder why they're doing a shoot out between those two anyway. Aren't the Sennheisers about triple the price of the Beyerdynamic? I'd sure expect the Sennheisers to be better.

It's not that bad (I paid 149€ vs 276€) but there's a price difference.

[Ph-J]

Some ratings on Sonarworks's blog
https://sonarworks.com/blog/how-to-choo ... eadphones/

[andymcbain]

In fact, from what I've been reading I've heard the HD 650 described in many positive ways, but not as a magnifying glass of frequencies. I've seen that description applied to the DT 990 many times. That's exactly what I want out of my next set of cans. I can EQ it if don't like it's curve, but what matters most to me is that it shines a huge spotlight on every frequency, every detail. I want to hear a reverb end and feel it's too abrupt. I want to crank a saturator to 1% and hear it did something. I don't know how close I can get to that level of detail, but it sounds to me that the DT 990 is the closest I'll get to it this side of the cost of a used Mexi Strat (which is my unit of currency for music purchases ).

I get this exact level of detail you describe from my HD650s

I honestly think it's best if you go to a shop and try a few models with familiar reference tracks... spend some proper time with each. Reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt and RTings, as interesting a knowledge base as it is, seems to base it's rating system heavily on measurements which differ to those you might find on a different website - such as Inner Fidelity (an even more in depth resource but sadly now defunct!) and has the misleading practice of rating headphones with perfectly acceptable noise isolation as "poor" simply because they don't stand up to the benchmark of active noise cancelling on a Bose QC35!

[smd12]

Sorry, but that sounds like typical headphone mix. Overblown lows, muddy mids and weird highs. People, mix on monitors and use headphones for reference only. If headphones were enough, than no studio would invest in mid or high range monitors.

Maybe it does, but thousands of people have downloaded my music and it is played on internet radio stations throughout the world...so, I'll keep doing what I am doing and you can listen to music mixed on high range monitors, if that is what you choose.

[jochicago]

I honestly think it's best if you go to a shop and try a few models with familiar reference tracks... spend some proper time with each. Reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt and RTings, as interesting a knowledge base as it is, seems to base it's rating system heavily on measurements which differ to those you might find on a different website - such as Inner Fidelity (an even more in depth resource but sadly now defunct!) and has the misleading practice of rating headphones with perfectly acceptable noise isolation as "poor" simply because they don't stand up to the benchmark of active noise cancelling on a Bose QC35!

I would like to spend some time with each. But I think the right amount of time is a couple of weeks to start to learn them and get a sense for what I'm hearing while working on mixes. I think hearing them at the store would do more to reinforce the "sticker" info I already know about them: the HD 650 will sound mid heavy, the DT 990 will have a V shape and pronounced sibilance.

100% agree headphone reviews are hard to go by. They are all over the place. Not just because it is hard to objectively describe headphones compared to everything, but because people get used to whatever they've been using. "Analysis" sites don't tell the whole story because an eq chart does nothing to explore how a headphone separates and reveals the bands and other critical differences in their function.

However, the reviews for the DT 990 are probably the most polarized of the bunch. Most people are happy with the typical brands/models, everyone thinks the HD 600/650s are solid headphones, but when it comes to Beyerdynamic they are either the worst headphones ever made or the magical stuff of dreams.

I think I would enjoy the HD 650. I focus on the mids, and I don't mind if my mixes end up with a bit of a smiley-face curve due to compensating for the HD 650. If I were buying them as a listener I think I would enjoy the HD 650 better than the DT 990 as well, because the DT 990 are going to over emphasize any errors in the mix, pronounce the sibilance and make excessive treble scratchy.

That's why I want them for mixing. I want those mistakes in my mixes to shine and bother me. This is where it gets into deep personal opinion, but I feel the HD 650 are designed with the soul of a sycophant, they want vocals to shine, your mix to sound good, they want to please your ear. The DT 990 want to challenge you, point and laugh at your mistakes, call you out until you fix them. I feel that's important in finishing a mix. If your mix is not there yet, it should sound bad. The worse the better.

That's probably overblown a bit. I've been looking at this stuff too close for too long. Ultimately, I probably want both of these models. It would be nice to have the HD 650 next to the DT 990, to work and reference on them at intervals. Of course, all of this is from on-paper analysis, without haven't learnt either of them.