Just heard some examples. I have heard lots of songs that use it but didn't know about the progression concept. Thank you for the amazing post!IncarnateX wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:49 pmYes, that is the standard “front door” in Jazz where we still have a V-I, however, wouldn’t you benefit from thr backdoor progression iv7-bVII7-I too, which may give it a little more “jazzy” flavour?
What one bit of Music Theory was really helpful that caused your songwriting to improve ?
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- KVRer
- 25 posts since 25 Jul, 2018
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Oh, one thing was to consider a rhythm differently from grouping it differently (this is from Konnakol, an Indian drumming pedagogy): so you are beginning with triplets but now you think of them, perhaps by accenting, in groups of 4. In, eg., accenting the first of four strikes you may perform a metrical modulation; your 4 is now at a 3:2 relationship to your primary tempo. And you pay close attention to your action so you may modulate right back to it this same way. Or you can keep moving; considered against the original pulse you're creating cross-rhythms and excitement via tension, and when you 'resolve' it's so satisfying.
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Eh..Jan? Is this a comment to something going on here or one of the other threads? I know we have more than a few in play now and I lose track myself but this ^^^ seems like belonging to the “polytonality” discussion in the A# key thread.
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Touch The Universe Touch The Universe https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=190615
- KVRAF
- 4772 posts since 2 Oct, 2008
Scales. Simple and sweet. If nothing else, learn what a minor scale is and that is good enough for most electronic music. Theory isn't required, but going that route, it's the bare minimum I think.
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
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- KVRist
- 38 posts since 28 Jan, 2009
How do you resolve it?jancivil wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:13 pm Oh, one thing was to consider a rhythm differently from grouping it differently (this is from Konnakol, an Indian drumming pedagogy): so you are beginning with triplets but now you think of them, perhaps by accenting, in groups of 4. In, eg., accenting the first of four strikes you may perform a metrical modulation; your 4 is now at a 3:2 relationship to your primary tempo. And you pay close attention to your action so you may modulate right back to it this same way. Or you can keep moving; considered against the original pulse you're creating cross-rhythms and excitement via tension, and when you 'resolve' it's so satisfying.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
For instance completing the metrical modulation, which there means the 4 pulse is 50% faster than the original; or you may simply finish at 1 and resume.
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Stamped Records Stamped Records https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=426472
- KVRist
- 349 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK
I feel like I can see the notes of a chosen piece as a single chord now. A key/scale, is a chord, so to speak. To change chord truly, and not superficially, I'd have to change key, I think. Has this kind of radical occured to anyone else or am I mad?
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
There will be contexts where that can work, but in and of itself, not a very good truism I'd say. Or a definition of 'chord'.
I just watched something where there is an illustration of 4 scales from a single tonic in increasing tension, and the person talking about it has 4 color areas, and tension zones accordingly. The two are pretty much married, there.
(But that is a certain thing, which I would call pan-modality, although the basic premise there accords more with jazz 'chord/scale theory'. There I would still agree with 'modal' insofar as it's limited to a single tonic.)
But even here, there are sonorities which give more tension than others.*
However, in the dominant/tonic paradigm, the two are not interchangeable. The tension does not dissolve just by ignoring it.
Turn it around: you may add tensions to dominant V7 which are not found wihin the seven-note scale, but it's still dominant V7.
But you do not have to consider diatonicism exactly so, you may do what is known as pandiatonicism where whatever momentary tension (*: basically out of the tritone, particularly as per the dominant/tonic paradigm or conventional tonality) is not given that kind of weight. It would get kind of anodyne before very long, probably. Pastel, or indistinct. It depends. If it's all the same weight, your interest would tend to be linear or textural. I mean you're obliterating harmony.
As a truism/as a 'per se', you''re about to go off the deep end IME.
I just watched something where there is an illustration of 4 scales from a single tonic in increasing tension, and the person talking about it has 4 color areas, and tension zones accordingly. The two are pretty much married, there.
(But that is a certain thing, which I would call pan-modality, although the basic premise there accords more with jazz 'chord/scale theory'. There I would still agree with 'modal' insofar as it's limited to a single tonic.)
But even here, there are sonorities which give more tension than others.*
However, in the dominant/tonic paradigm, the two are not interchangeable. The tension does not dissolve just by ignoring it.
Turn it around: you may add tensions to dominant V7 which are not found wihin the seven-note scale, but it's still dominant V7.
But you do not have to consider diatonicism exactly so, you may do what is known as pandiatonicism where whatever momentary tension (*: basically out of the tritone, particularly as per the dominant/tonic paradigm or conventional tonality) is not given that kind of weight. It would get kind of anodyne before very long, probably. Pastel, or indistinct. It depends. If it's all the same weight, your interest would tend to be linear or textural. I mean you're obliterating harmony.
As a truism/as a 'per se', you''re about to go off the deep end IME.
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Stamped Records Stamped Records https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=426472
- KVRist
- 349 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK
All very interesting, But the phrase turn it around, I've heard it before, is that what it means, to add a chromatic tone to the dominant7?
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- KVRist
- 70 posts since 29 May, 2016
That the treble and bass clefs can have different keys or different modes or different scales. That opened up so many more harmonic sounds.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I just meant look at it from the other perspective.Stamped Records wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:45 amAll very interesting, But the phrase turn it around, I've heard it before, is that what it means, to add a chromatic tone to the dominant7?
But harmonically, a turnaround tends to mean go through V back around to I.
The point was, dominant V, if it is that, is that, full stop, scale notwithstanding.
- KVRian
- 1100 posts since 9 Jan, 2015 from NY, NY
It was a bit of wisdom from Robert Fripp I think. He said (and I’m sure this is not verbatim, but close enough):
“There’s no such thing as a wrong note - just think of it as an opportunity to take the music in an unexpected direction”
“There’s no such thing as a wrong note - just think of it as an opportunity to take the music in an unexpected direction”
Sweet child in time...