Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
lfm
KVRAF
4867 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:52 am

himalaya wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:14 am
lfm wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:48 pm

So no hesitation on sound quality anymore, it was just Arturias own tutorials that sounded not so good.
I told you just as much. :party:

It's also a perfect example of how YouTube videos cannot be treated as the definitive guide to the sound quality of any given synth. One video left you thinking that the synth sounds bad, and the other video showed you that actually, there is no issue with the sound quality.
But I'm afraid - being manufacturer not caring enough to fix it - other YT review sound excellent, MatrixBrute as well. Roland various I checked out, JD XA, System-8 - excellent. Their own and 3rd party review stuff.

It does put Arturia in a bad spot for me - second rate. Sound is a selling point more than anything on this product - and yet no effort. Their own tutorials where you have a very good chance to reel customer in.

It's a cable over to interface, record, and know what you are doing when making the video before uploading to YT.

So sorry, but it's not a perfect example at all. A lot is to do with image - and branding these days - honor it like your own mother.

himalaya
KVRAF
4930 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:34 pm

lfm wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:52 am


So sorry, but it's not a perfect example at all. A lot is to do with image - and branding these days - honor it like your own mother.
But of course it is. :D
Again, one video provided audio that you did not like, and you were about to go away thinking that this synth has bad filters. Then another video changed your mind. It is an example that we should not use videos for final critical appraisal of the sound quality. Nothing to do with company image or branding. We were talking about audio, not branding.

Don't make too much from my comments. They are made in good spirit. But it is clear that the MatrixBrute is a very deep synth capable of a huge range of sounds (with so many options that can add a harder, overdriven and even 'digital' edge) . That one particular video shows a specific set of sounds, should never be the yardstick by which a synth is judged. I think that's the conclusion I'd like to draw. :)
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

lfm
KVRAF
4867 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:48 pm

rlared wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:50 am
#1: The tuning definitely drifts, especially when you first turn it on. But I haven't had any tuning problems that auto-tune couldn't resolve.

#2: No reliability problems. It's built really well and everything seems really high-quality.

#3: Monophonic and paraphonic modes share the same filter envelope Env 1 by default. But keep in mind Envelope 3 can be routed to control pretty much whatever you want. So for example you can use Env 3 to control the ladder filter cutoff. In this case if you set the ladder filter "Env Amt" to zero then only Env 3 would control it, otherwise Env 1 and Env 3 would control it. Also, duo split mode routes Oscillator 3 through the ladder filter and uses Env 3 as the filter and amp envelope. So yes there are multiple different ways to have parallel routes.

I didn't understand your last question. But hope this helps!
Thank you, it did help a lot.

#1. Aware of analog oscillators, part of the charm like an living organism, kind of.
#3. VCO 3 can have the keybrd tracking on, and do pitch like you play, I suppose.

From manual on split mode, not sure if the same otherwise.
"Signals routed to VCF 2 (the Ladder filter); are controlled by ENV 3 which then
controls both the Ladder filter and a hidden VCA."

But the left over VCA which follow the ENV3, same as filter - is not independent like upper section.

There is series/parallell in upper section that can have the VCO3 routed to one?
Seems oscillators VCO1 and 2 are mixed first.

Since everything is voltages routed around, I guess it is a delicate thing to allow everything to everything. Tiny leakage and VCO's are out of tune etc.

Just trying to figure out limitations - not that I absolutely need.

It seems to be standard that oscillators are mixed first, to create more complex waveforms but that is often fixed anyway with VA synths doing shaping in various ways - so not sure why VA stick to this. Apart from KingKorg that has two parts - and you can run two routes like I wrote osc->filter(env)->amp(env).

But seems really cool options in MatrixBrute for VCO's that goes a long way. It's always putting this kind of money into something it's not only what you want - but is there a demand if wanting to exchange later etc. And on true analog gear can break like digital chips seldom do, I think. There is a used one in a shop here - and 25% off new price - so torn with limited warranty and stuff.

About the same money for JD XA, 30% of for System-8 and 45% off for Nordlead A1 - which are my main contestants. And think second hand value stick better with these being higher in demand.

I got a Arturia Analog lab 5-6 years ago, when one of the main brains and developers in the company left. Maintenance was gone, and bugs were not fixed. So I got rid of it.

And tutorials also serve as promotion for a product, and Arturia did obviously not listen through their own tuts as been sailing on YT for a while now.

Putting this kind of money into unit makes you think many times over before purchase.

What impresses is the true love for synth technology that shines through in MatrixBrute. Really bold move - so that is on the upside. With this electronic patch bay is also really good thinking - having really smooth operation and ability with presets and stuff - which physical cables does not allow.

Checked out a couple of Keith Emerson concerts on DVD recently - and my god that myriad of cables - and he does not do that many things in a concert with that unit anyway - I guess for practical reasons, not having presets. But the big love is Hammond and what he does with that - remarkable.

Everything is inspiration - listening to these fine musicians and exploring new gear and territory as well. :)

rlared
KVRist
216 posts since 1 Aug, 2016

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:42 pm

In my opinion, if youre gonna drop money on a synth then id suggest going with one that is analog, has one knob per function, and no menu diving. Otherwise youre just overpaying fotr a software synth and midi controller. Unless you are gigging, then thats a different story.
Win 10 x64, Studio One Pro V4, FL Studio Producer, Komplete 11, Komplete Control MK2 49, VPS Avenger, Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB

User avatar
SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5798 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:45 pm

lfm wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:48 pm
Checked out a couple of Keith Emerson concerts on DVD recently - and my god that myriad of cables - and he does not do that many things in a concert with that unit anyway - I guess for practical reasons, not having presets. But the big love is Hammond and what he does with that - remarkable.
Depending on how old the concert was, he uses the Modular all the time, and it does have presets. He had a custom routing/normalling box with push buttons on the bottom row. I can't remember the number, but it's something like 14 or 16 presets. If it's brain salad or before, pretty much all the synth sounds are from the modular. He also had some fancy stuff like routing a permanent sine output direct to the output vca that bypasses everything mixed into a large number of his patches. Anyhow, that modular is FAR from stock. And just as an aside, even without the fancy behind the facade custom wiring he had done, the mixer sections have switchable routings that can be used as presets.

It was a common configuration to have these mixer panels normaled to 901 and 921 oscillator drivers. This allowed the switches to be used as a preset patchbays.

Image
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

User avatar
SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5798 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:53 pm

If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

lfm
KVRAF
4867 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:04 pm

rlared wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:42 pm
In my opinion, if youre gonna drop money on a synth then id suggest going with one that is analog, has one knob per function, and no menu diving. Otherwise youre just overpaying fotr a software synth and midi controller. Unless you are gigging, then thats a different story.
Thank you, yes, that is why I went all towards hardware in last 5-6 years.
One button to push, and off you go playing a bit. Nothing compares.

I think all my references JD XA, System-8, MatrixBrute and Nordlead A1 fullfill that knob thingy. As does Nordlead 2X I have, and to some degree KingKorg that lacks too many knobs to be that fun to work with.

JD XA is maybe strongest candidate right now, analog synth and extensive abilities in digital section with Integra compatibility for presets.

But they are all hot.

lfm
KVRAF
4867 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:25 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:45 pm
Depending on how old the concert was, he uses the Modular all the time, and it does have presets. He had a custom routing/normalling box with push buttons on the bottom row. I can't remember the number, but it's something like 14 or 16 presets. If it's brain salad or before, pretty much all the synth sounds are from the modular. He also had some fancy stuff like routing a permanent sine output direct to the output vca that bypasses everything mixed into a large number of his patches. Anyhow, that modular is FAR from stock. And just as an aside, even without the fancy behind the facade custom wiring he had done, the mixer sections have switchable routings that can be used as presets.

It was a common configuration to have these mixer panels normaled to 901 and 921 oscillator drivers. This allowed the switches to be used as a preset patchbays.
It was ELP Montreux 1997 and Emerson band Moscow not too long ago. I think you are right what he used. Seems beyond human, kind of, as video(thanks) shows as well.

Seems cool with these switchable patchbays, never knew about those. I guess as modern floorboards are fully programable like that - options are endless.

For us that have an apartment and don't need a synth to live in - maybe a bit over the top. ;)

User avatar
SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5798 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:43 pm

ah yeah, you need to go back to the old school stuff to see him really work that organ and modular out. Just crazy. But heck, that rig is over the top for pretty much anyone :hihi: ok, back to

Here's Keith going way over the top on the organ .. I'll stop derailing now :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZK_fFtwKs0
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

lfm
KVRAF
4867 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:58 am

SJ_Digriz wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:43 pm

Here's Keith going way over the top on the organ .. I'll stop derailing now :D
Nice injection already before lunch here, thanks. :)

When looking for Hammond second hand I looked here to get a view of what is what:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hammond_organs

L100 - "much abused by Keith Emerson".

In one of the dvd concerts, this was just a skeleton left and a couple of missing keys even.

Shabdahbriah
KVRAF
4916 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:56 am

A little doodle by Nick Batt, @0:10, posted a few hours ago, which is a prelude to a show coming up on Friday, where it will be the featured synth. He shows some more of it at 8:15.

https://youtu.be/dvIBVzB9tBg
Perception is the ultimate "reality" ~ but not, the ultimate Truth.

lfm
KVRAF
4867 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:44 pm

Thanks shabdahbriah.

I can put Nick Batt review I found that reversed my view on this unit after seeing Arturia tuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRoqZyNMa8E&t=40s

So a 31 min review - that gives a pretty good idea.

Those that do these podcasts all the time, learn the audio part as well.

Shabdahbriah
KVRAF
4916 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 pm

YW... Fridays show should be interesting. And yes, I love Nicks review style, knowledge, manner, and enthusiasm. I got my Pittsburgh Modular SV-1 Blackbox (instead of a Mother-32) because of his review. As with the Arturia demo's, the PM 'staff' demos basically sucked. Really cool people, and certainly tech-literate, but not "musically" adept enough to really show the features and sounds by example, that would have a broader appeal to 'musicians', or frankly ~ even adequately to tweakers/noise makers (like me).

Have you seen this guys take on the MatrixBrute? ... he also mentions Ask audio's course on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CPV_n6T80U
Perception is the ultimate "reality" ~ but not, the ultimate Truth.

lfm
KVRAF
4867 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:51 pm

Shabdahbriah wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 pm
Have you seen this guys take on the MatrixBrute? ... he also mentions Ask audio's course on it.
That was amazing, thank you, even if it started off bad rather out of tune.

It pretty much answered a bunch of my question about routings and filters(at about 14:00-16:00) and something above the ordinary.

You can choose to send from the mixer each oscillator(or the 4+external sources) to just upper or lower or both filters - that blows my mind. Set series/parallell to parallell and each mixer knob can select what that oscillator source is sent to upp/lower or both and what amount.

Named "mixer" it sort of implies as in most synths - you mix audio and send it further. It should really named "mixer/router" to more close to what it does.

Then the mod matrix on top of these things - like modulate each of those knobs on mixer different amount - yes, each node in matrix has it's own amount, positive or negative(color or the active one is different, if many).

So the 4 macro knobs can have individuall amount to each destination, positive or negative. This as well as anything else in mod matrix.

And with the ease in workflow they created this - and with presets storage - if to really explore and get encouraged to explore it does not go any further than this.

You can get further - but probably need to use cabled and separate modules - and hiddeous workflow in comparison. But he also explained very well how this unit can be extended in matrix and the external CV ins/outs - that is cool as hell.

Crap, I want this....do I get the new one that is close enough to drive or dare I get the used one that is in a store too far away...

Sending this 20 kg around freight cost is significant of going back and forth a couple of time doing warranty stuff.(here about 3% of cost of unit one way).

User avatar
chaosWyrM
KVRAF
1753 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Re: Arturia MATRIXBRUTE

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:17 am

Shabdahbriah wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 pm
Have you seen this guys take on the MatrixBrute? ... he also mentions Ask audio's course on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CPV_n6T80U
loopop is hands down my favorite synth video creator. his vids are super in depth, well structured, and he really knows what hes talking about and how to convey that knowledge to others. sonicstate guys are good....but loopop is on another level.

sorry for the ot comment....back to our regularly scheduled program
ImageImageImage

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”