I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
Zenith_Sound
Banned
4 posts since 17 Jan, 2019

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:58 am

Hi ! I would love to get your feedback on my current project.

Over the years, I always wanted to get this Hypersaw (and later the supersaw) tone, but it was always a frustrating experience.
Going with softsynths, no matter how good was the VST, the sound was too digital.

Even with the best emulations available of the JP8000 and Virus TI (I would not give any name), it was still lacking the "tone" of the hardware synths.


Going with sample based instruments was not better : the reason is that the sounds were not enough sampled.
An overall bad quality sound (because the preset contains only 3 samples for one octave) and a machine gun effect when playing chords or arpeggios (because no round robin).


So, the only solution I had was to buy a JP8080 (600 euros) and a Virus TI2 (1800 euros).

That's what I did, and now I fully enjoy the beauty of these synths.


But, I still wanted to construct a samples library based on these synths, with a new way of sampling them. My goal was to give to anyone the opportunity to get the sounds, with no compromise on the quality.

First, ALL the notes would be sampled, one by one, instead of pitching samples (wich is one the worst things you can do to a sample).

The second idea is to use round robin, making a total of 4 samples for one note.


This is making the sound far far better to any sampled sounds I have heard, but then the size of the sound, due to the huge number of samples, is big.


I think I will make two versions of this library. One for the JP8000 supersaw, and one for the Virus TI Hypersaw.

I would make about five sounds for each synth, 5 flavors. This could be used as your own sound for anthem trance, EDM, or House, or as a layer to your leads.

The price would be 10 euros a library, a total of 20 euros for about 10 very high quality super and hyper saw.


Anyone interested ?! Any thoughs ?

surreal
KVRian
1141 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 am

Sounds good! One could never have enough Supersaws!!

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phreaque
KVRian
785 posts since 17 Jul, 2007 from Baghdad-Iq

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:03 am

You're investing lots of money to make a couple of libraries that might easily get leaked out illegally and that will impact on the business. I would recommend making them as a plugin instead.
Phreaque Modi

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BertKoor
KVRAF
10921 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm

My thought: wrong approach.

You like SuperSaw / HyperSaw from some machines with digital oscillators. Sampling each & every note won't get you there. Does not really make sense...

Maybe just looping a sample of 10 seconds of a very low note will.

Better study how these waveforms are produced in the first place.
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30515 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:51 pm

So you think a digital synth sounds too digital so you want to sample 2 digital synths and recreate them digitally using samples to make them sound less digital? :lol:

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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2103 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:14 am

Zenith_Sound wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:58 am

So, the only solution I had was to buy a JP8080 (600 euros) and a Virus TI2 (1800 euros).
With biggest respects dude... this is what I tell myself every time I want to justify myself for buying something :hihi: The only solution is that I HAVE to buy another vintage sampler for this project - or whatever I fancy at the moment. Don't get me wrong - I'm not dissing on your idea. I just get these ideas / excuses to go something cool / expensive for a certain project all the time.

Building a supersaw library? I've done a few of those during the last years and while the reception was good and they sold well, I've come to the conclusion that it's a concept mainly sound designers who care about the different flavours of supersaws - few customers really care. All they want is kick-ass sounds that solve their visions.

Again - don't get me wrong. I think your idea is well worth doing. I'm just saying that if I were to make one of those once again, I would probably not limit myself to just supersaws but add a few other flavours that normally go well with those sounds in those genres.

Now I have to go to eBay looking for some old Mirage hardware samplers that I absolutely NEED for a future project. I am not joking :lol: I effing need those things.

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
HOUSE 101 - House / Dance sounds for TAL Bassline 101
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

AnX
KVRAF
3836 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:16 am

Zenith_Sound wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:58 am
Hi ! I would love to get your feedback on my current project.

Over the years, I always wanted to get this Hypersaw (and later the supersaw) tone, but it was always a frustrating experience.
Going with softsynths, no matter how good was the VST, the sound was too digital.
you do realise the originals are digital?

those sounds are already very convincingly covered in the vst synth world, you're wasting your time with static samples

recursive one
KVRAF
3847 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:53 am

Virus TI hypersaw (first) vs a software Virus emulation (second)

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/v ... w-test-dry

Maybe they don't sound 100% the same (I'd say they are about 98.58723% the same :) ) but I doubt you will get any closer with static samples.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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phreaque
KVRian
785 posts since 17 Jul, 2007 from Baghdad-Iq

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:59 am

Perhaps seeing your libraries getting warezed is way less painful than seeing such conflicting opinions and criticism. :neutral:
Phreaque Modi

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26639 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:32 am

phreaque wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:03 am
You're investing lots of money to make a couple of libraries that might easily get leaked out illegally and that will impact on the business. I would recommend making them as a plugin instead.
sily notion that plugins dont also 'get leaked out illegally'.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
1539 posts since 17 Jan, 2017

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:51 am

Maybe making your own supersaw "Nexus"?

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Zombie Queen
KVRAF
4529 posts since 1 Aug, 2005 from Warszawa, Poland

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:04 am

Two toughs:

Round robin is not a very good idea, make long samples and start playback at random points, gives you lots of round robin without extra samples.

The biggest issue you will face is to make a good seamless loop on a waveform like this. It's not impossible, but not easy. Count 10-30 minutes per sample on looping alone. Wavelab looping tool can be helpful.

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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2103 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:22 am

Zombie Queen wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:04 am
Two toughs:

Round robin is not a very good idea, make long samples and start playback at random points, gives you lots of round robin without extra samples.

The biggest issue you will face is to make a good seamless loop on a waveform like this. It's not impossible, but not easy. Count 10-30 minutes per sample on looping alone. Wavelab looping tool can be helpful.
+1 on the long samples and randomize the starting points. That's a really good trick keeping size down. :tu:

But I don't think you need to go 10-30 minutes finding a good loop point. With the right tools you can trim it down quite significantly.

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
HOUSE 101 - House / Dance sounds for TAL Bassline 101
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

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Zombie Queen
KVRAF
4529 posts since 1 Aug, 2005 from Warszawa, Poland

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:55 am

DrGonzo wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:22 am
But I don't think you need to go 10-30 minutes finding a good loop point. With the right tools you can trim it down quite significantly.
May be the matter of experience/expectations. With supersaw being a stack of detuned waveforms, finding a point where it actually repeats the cycle is challenging, then such a point may not be a good one. Crossfades will be almost certainly audible. I've been there.

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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2103 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: I am currently working on a Hypersaw AND Supersaw Kontakt library, any ideas ?

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:08 am

Zombie Queen wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:55 am
DrGonzo wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:22 am
But I don't think you need to go 10-30 minutes finding a good loop point. With the right tools you can trim it down quite significantly.
May be the matter of experience/expectations. With supersaw being a stack of detuned waveforms, finding a point where it actually repeats the cycle is challenging, then such a point may not be a good one. Crossfades will be almost certainly audible. I've been there.
Yeah, looping complex supersaws is certainly one big challenge.

/C
Plughugger Sound Design
HOUSE 101 - House / Dance sounds for TAL Bassline 101
HARDWARE SAMPLER FANATIC - Akai S1100/S950/Z8 - Casio FZ20m - Emu Emax I - Roland S750/DJ70 - Ensoniq ASR10/EPSm

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