Question for synth gurus re oscillator tuning.
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Karbon L. Forms Karbon L. Forms https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29033
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland
I've been thinking about a hardware synth and was looking at the Behringer Neutron, and I was wondering to myself: Why are the Osc tune knobs so big? Are they used in performance? Why is the filter freq so small in comparison? Surely that's a better candidate for enbiggenment? (I'm a Stephan Bodzin fan) I figured a big knob is easier to adjust finely, which is fair enough.
Which led me to think... On any synth, hard or soft, is all that tuning range absolutely necessary?
In my (limited) experience of reading/watching tutorials and looking at presets, I see the same things used all the time...
1. Detuned a wee bit
2. An interval, almost without fail a fifth (+7) or fourth (+5) (which may itself be detuned)
3. Entire octaves up or down.
So to me, a fine knob and semitone and octave control makes most sense (e.g. Serum) and tucked away so you don't nudge it by accident.
So, in the Minimoogs and Neutrons and such like, most positions on this large, prominent and easily accessible knob are musically useless (or niche at least)? Is fast access to discordant sounds important?
There must be something I'm missing. Is it from times of yore when you'd be constantly tuning the thing in a live context?
Looking at a Sub 37, that seems to make more sense, relatively small Osc controls and a walloping great filter freq. (I only see one +/- 7 osc freq control so not sure how that works on 2 oscs)
Which led me to think... On any synth, hard or soft, is all that tuning range absolutely necessary?
In my (limited) experience of reading/watching tutorials and looking at presets, I see the same things used all the time...
1. Detuned a wee bit
2. An interval, almost without fail a fifth (+7) or fourth (+5) (which may itself be detuned)
3. Entire octaves up or down.
So to me, a fine knob and semitone and octave control makes most sense (e.g. Serum) and tucked away so you don't nudge it by accident.
So, in the Minimoogs and Neutrons and such like, most positions on this large, prominent and easily accessible knob are musically useless (or niche at least)? Is fast access to discordant sounds important?
There must be something I'm missing. Is it from times of yore when you'd be constantly tuning the thing in a live context?
Looking at a Sub 37, that seems to make more sense, relatively small Osc controls and a walloping great filter freq. (I only see one +/- 7 osc freq control so not sure how that works on 2 oscs)
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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- KVRist
- 128 posts since 18 May, 2016
Depends what you're doing, and what kind of imagination you have for sound design. If you're using FM or sync functions an osc pitch knob is actually a portal to lots of different timbres. With a modular, all manner of stuff is possible. Some of my fav oscs have had 12-turn pots for the pitch. And for some grizzled old synth heads like me, waggling the cutoff is the most boring thing you can do on a synth
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Karbon L. Forms Karbon L. Forms https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29033
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland
FM. Good point. But I'm mostly referring to subtractives.
So what are the cool kids waggling these days?
So what are the cool kids waggling these days?
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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- KVRAF
- 7364 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
Karbon L. Forms wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:28 pm I've been thinking about a hardware synth and was looking at the Behringer Neutron, and I was wondering to myself: Why are the Osc tune knobs so big? Are they used in performance? Why is the filter freq so small in comparison? Surely that's a better candidate for enbiggenment? (I'm a Stephan Bodzin fan) I figured a big knob is easier to adjust finely, which is fair enough.
Karbon L. Forms wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:52 pm FM. Good point. But I'm mostly referring to subtractives.
I think part of it is tradition. Big means important, and people sort of expect that design language.
Part of it is that yeah, big knobs are easier to make fine adjustments on.
It's common to have a big coarse knob and a small fine knob, but I find myself preferring the coarse knob most of the time and only go for the fine one if I need to minutely tweak the beating between oscillators.
One of the things that slightly annoys me about the Microbrute is there is no coarse tuning knob, and just a tiny, awkward fine tuner on the back -- meant to make the thing match other synths that are also tuned to A440 or similar. If you've carefully dialed in an exponential FM patch on a modular, you want to be able to freely transpose everything else because getting the relative frequencies EXACTLY right while shifting down by 183 cents or whatever is kind of a nightmare.
Noise Engineering has an interesting approach for their digital oscillators -- an endless rotary encoder which is push for coarse, don't push for fine tuning. It takes more getting used to than a big coarse knob but has the advantage of safety from accidental bumps
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- KVRist
- 128 posts since 18 May, 2016
But what about sync? It's one of the most basic things you can have in a subtractive synth osc section. And FM doesn't necessarily mean a DX7, you can do it on, for example, an Arp odyssey which is one of the classic subtractive monosynths.Karbon L. Forms wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:52 pm FM. Good point. But I'm mostly referring to subtractives.
That would be tellingSo what are the cool kids waggling these days?
Last edited by moshimoshi on Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRist
- 128 posts since 18 May, 2016
Use a static DC voltage into the CV in to offset? Obviously not as nice as having it on the synth but having some external cv bits can be useful when up against these limitations.foosnark wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:43 pm One of the things that slightly annoys me about the Microbrute is there is no coarse tuning knob, and just a tiny, awkward fine tuner on the back -- meant to make the thing match other synths that are also tuned to A440 or similar. If you've carefully dialed in an exponential FM patch on a modular, you want to be able to freely transpose everything else because getting the relative frequencies EXACTLY right while shifting down by 183 cents or whatever is kind of a nightmare.
Last edited by moshimoshi on Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 128 posts since 18 May, 2016
double, I always hit quote instead of edit
- KVRAF
- 7364 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
That's a fine idea, and I'm annoyed I didn't think of it Habits from the way I use it I guess. I still usually think of the Microbrute as separate from the modular unless I want to FM it or something.moshimoshi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:52 amUse a static DC voltage into the CV in to offset? Obviously not as nice as having it on the synth but having some external cv bits can be useful when up against these limitations.
- KVRAF
- 2271 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit NE US
It certainly depends of what you are making. Perhaps more tradional stuff needs less reange? When i do “science fiction” i like really wide tuning sweeps. Some of my modulars have concentric pots so outside is coarse/ inside is fine tune. I’ve also had one concentric and one superfine 12 turn. When i make reaktor synths i often add a very wide range tune knob.
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if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).
old stuff http://ww.dancingbearaudioresearch.com/
if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).
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Karbon L. Forms Karbon L. Forms https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29033
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1372 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland
I was watching a video on the IK Uno. The osc tune nob, when it's around 0 it uses fine increments for detunery and as you move away from 0 it switches (or morphs?) to semi-tones.
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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