So does Propellerheads Reason still have a "Sound" to it in 2019?

[V0RT3X]

I remember there being a debate back on Gearsluts about Reason having a "Sound" that made it sound less professional than other DAWs. I think it might have been about the Mixing engine and the fact you could only use the included (somewhat dated sounding) devices and the Rack plugins from the store.

Now that it has VST support does it still have a "sound" that is less professional sound. Would you be able to notice if you made a track in Reason 10?



I think you can get some pretty awesome results for contemporary "modern" sounding pop productions using Reason. Not sure I could say the same for complex soundtrack production.

I also know Reason has internal limitations with it's CV modulation system not being as high resolution as it could be. This could be problematic for electronic musicians wanting audio rate sounds with some of the factory devices etc.

Is version 10 buggy in 2019? I'm getting kind of tempted to buy it to play around with.

[antic604]

No.

Its native instruments & effects do, but that's obviously the same with every other DAW and their native devices.

If you play & render the same sample or VST patch through Reason it'll sound the same as any other DAW (assuming all the other settings are the same)

Close the topic, please.

[V0RT3X]

No.

Its native instruments & effects do, but that's obviously the same with every other DAW and their native devices.

If you play & render the same sample or VST patch through Reason it'll sound the same as any other DAW (assuming all the other settings are the same)

Close the topic, please.

But isn't part of that "Sound" also due to it's SSL mixing desk emulation which probably isn't even on par to the latest mixing desk emulations now. I still don't understand why they didn't just put in a regular mixer system like every other DAW has because Propellerhead has a track record of usually NOT updating their devices.

Screen Shot 2019-01-28 at 11.28.43 AM.jpg

No I won't close the topic. Feel free to ignore it.

[antic604]

But isn't part of that "Sound" also due to it's SSL mixing desk emulation which probably isn't even on par to the latest mixing desk emulations now.

As I said, if you don't use Reason's native stuff a sample or VST patch will sound the same as in any other DAW.

Reason's SSL is just a *functional* emulation, it doesn't do any coloring of the sound, no component-level modelling of the circuits, cables, etc. You might leave it untouched and use your own VSTs or channel strips.

[V0RT3X]

But isn't part of that "Sound" also due to it's SSL mixing desk emulation which probably isn't even on par to the latest mixing desk emulations now.

As I said, if you don't use Reason's native stuff a sample or VST patch will sound the same as in any other DAW.

Reason's SSL is just a *functional* emulation, it doesn't do any coloring of the sound, no component-level modelling of the circuits, cables, etc. You might leave it untouched and use your own VSTs or channel strips.

So it's kind of false advertising then? Most people know by now that a part of the sound of a mixer is largely due to the sound of the summing engine. They seem to sell it as making a huge difference to the sound, I guess they're talking about the workflow.

[antic604]

So it's kind of false advertising then? Most people know by now that a part of the sound of a mixer is largely due to the sound of the summing engine.

I don't think so.

At least not any more than SSL emulations from Waves, Brainworx or Slate that all sound different yet all are still labelled as "SSL".

What's the most important IMO is the workflow, that's much better than in any other single channel strip, or even the new CLA MixHUB. For me personally, having a transparent, character-less mixer is a plus. If I want colour, I'll add it using other plugins during sound design phase

[antic604]

...part of the sound of a mixer is largely due to the sound of the summing engine...

BTW, "sound of the summing engine" is an oxymoron. Summing is a mathematical operation leaving to room for arbitrary results. If someone's keen on adding colour, then they'll make the summing not working perfectly

And I was joking about closing the topic. Actually, go check my topic from 2 weeks back:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=518037

[V0RT3X]

...part of the sound of a mixer is largely due to the sound of the summing engine...

BTW, "sound of the summing engine" is an oxymoron. Summing is a mathematical operation leaving to room for arbitrary results. If someone's keen on adding colour, then they'll make the summing not working perfectly

And I was joking about closing the topic. Actually, go check my topic from 2 weeks back:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=518037

An oxymoron? Not with an analog mixer which is what I was alluding to. This is why Brainworx has modelled a few mixing desks right down to the individual channels.

See in an analog mixing desk like the actual SSL 9000, you get a different sound when you drive the channels a bit harder which "glues" the sound together. Afaik Reason like you said above, DOES not have this kind of modelling, but they kind of sell it to a potential buyer (Average bedroom producer) that it will make it sound like they mixed it on a million dollar mixer. This is where my false advertising comment came from.

Maybe it wasn't intentional, but still there is a ALOT more to the sound of a SSL than just the workflow.

[antic604]

An oxymoron? Not with an analog mixer which is what I was alluding to. This is why Brainworx has modelled a few mixing desks right down to the individual channels.

See in an analog mixing desk like the actual SSL 9000, you get a different sound when you drive the channels a bit harder which "glues" the sound together. Afaik Reason like you said above, DOES not have this kind of modelling, but they kind of sell it to a potential buyer (Average bedroom producer) that it will make it sound like they mixed it on a million dollar mixer. This is where my false advertising comment came from.

Maybe it wasn't intentional, but still there is a ALOT more to the sound of a SSL than just the workflow.

Oh, if you meant analog then sure! I agree

Regarding the false advertising, I'm pretty sure SSL would sue them if it was infringing (or harming) their intellectual property in any way

[chk071]

As far as i read, the SSL mixer indeed does some sound colouring. If you don't use it, it will sound the same as other DAW's. I don't know how old this information is though, it's just something i've read. Maybe they changed something about the SSL mixer now.

It seems pretty obvious though, doesn't it? If they emulate a analog mixing desk, it should colour the sound.

[xbitz]

anyway at least it knows the SSL trick

2:20>

[fmr]

An oxymoron? Not with an analog mixer which is what I was alluding to. This is why Brainworx has modelled a few mixing desks right down to the individual channels.

Digital summing is EXACT. If you don't process any channel, it has to sound the same, no matter what software you use. If you process the channels with the same plug-in using the same parameters, it will sound the same too. If it doesn't, something wrong must be happening.

Analog summing has slight variations induced by the individual circuits. In an analog console, you don't have two channels behaving EXACTLY the same way, and they vary from time to time (if in good shape, these variations are very slight, but they exist). This introduces unpredictabilities and non-linearities. That's what brainworx was trying to replicate with their Tolerance Modelling Technology.

However, in digital replicas (not using TMT), if you use the same parameters in all channels, you will get the exact same behavior in all of them (because digital is EXACT - it doesn't vary according to age, electric current, temperature, etc.). For example, the same audio file will sound the same no matter which channel we play it in a DAW, if they all use the same parameters. This doesn't happen in an analogue console - the difference may be so slight it is imperceptible, but it exists.

Propellerhead never said they had non-linearities in the Reason summing engine (nor does any other DAW, AFAIK). So, if you are using THE SAME plug-ins in Reason and any other DAW, and you completely bypass the MIXING part (eg, the EQ, the compressor and the gate - not the summing), you should get the same result.

[chk071]

... if it doesn't run through a analog modelled mixer.

Anyway. No idea what exactly they modelled anyway.

[fmr]

... if it doesn't run through a analog modelled mixer.

Even in an analog modelled mixer, all channels behave the same way, AFAIK. That's why brainworx claim their technology is so revolutionary.

[Etienne1973]

Propellerhead never said they had non-linearities in the Reason summing engine (nor does any other DAW, AFAIK).

Does the Harrison Mixbus DAW have non-linearities like Brainworx TMT?