Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120 (KH wins!) So, Acoustics...

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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:52 pm

This should be more helpful. Lots of stuff that needs fixing :) I'll experiment with eq to see how flat I can get it with that. Any idea how? What are you guys doing, putting an eq on your master?
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:04 pm

* Edit - Here is how.
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medienhexer
KVRian
761 posts since 16 May, 2007 from At home. Good bye city ways!

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:01 am

As already stated, the frequency plot is only part of it. Can you provide the waterfall, too?
..off to play with my music toys - library music production.
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:56 am

waterfall 2.jpg
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:05 am

With Sub and Without Sub. No settings on the sub improved the flatness. It got flat when I turned it off completely :D Not sure what to think about this.
superimpose.png
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:09 am

On another note, I'm going for the Neumann's. If I'm not satistified, or overly curious, I'll also order the Adam's a7x's and give them a try to compare with the neumann's so I can keep or just return them. Same thing with the genelec's.

Just waiting for my offer to get approved 1050 total (including shipping) and comes with free ISO stands :D

I'm also going for a Virus TI Snow :)

The seven hour trip to preview the monitors is too much :P I'll just order and trust the reviews :)
Last edited by Touch The Universe on Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Breen
KVRer
3 posts since 12 Feb, 2019

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:05 pm

I have A7X. Not satisfied with its low end. I had S3A before - big difference )

medienhexer
KVRian
761 posts since 16 May, 2007 from At home. Good bye city ways!

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:29 am

Jeebus! How did you produce 150 dB for the waterfall? And why?

Okay, as far as I can see, there are no *massive* room modes, you have one issue at 52 Hz plus multiples and one at 75Hz and multiples, which are probably depth and width of your room.

Then there’s that strange 4-8kHz ringing. If you were really going at 150 dB, that may even be mechanical ringing from speaker, speaker stand, microphone stand or microphone.

I‘d focus on the 75-300 Hz range, whatever you do to fix that will very likely affect reverb time of the rest of the spectrum.

Overall, reverb is too long, but relatively even. So you can gain a lot with broad band absorbtion without risking the room sounding dead.

I‘d definitely recommend huge corner traps (1x1m, floor to ceiling, dimensions depending on the damping material). In my room, I just had a very prominent 60Hz issue, when I took care of that, the rest evened out a lot.
..off to play with my music toys - library music production.
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Fourstepper
KVRist
216 posts since 22 Jun, 2018

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:36 am

So why does no one here consider sonarworks to fix the frequency response?
:dog:

medienhexer
KVRian
761 posts since 16 May, 2007 from At home. Good bye city ways!

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:47 am

As to speakers, I have the Adam F7.

Compared them with a lot of other speakers at the dealership some time after I got to know them pretty well.

Found the A7X to be very similar, a little better in bass precision. Liked the Neumann 120s a lot for their openness and overall precision. However, compared the 120s with several other speakers at a different dealer with a terrible sounding room and the 120s sounded almost mono or out of phase there. So you will need a treated room to make the right decision for sure.

Currently, my room is treated nicely and I am trialing Sonarworks. Huge mistake, now I have to find a great deal on that one! Once speakers were positioned the best they could (symmetrically, far enough from the back wall to not cause boomieness, etc.), there were two holes in the spectrum which were okay for pop and acoustic music but heavy guitars would always sound nasal and scratchy even though the mix was great.

In that scenario, digital room correction seems to help a lot. Don’t start with it, though.
..off to play with my music toys - library music production.
http://www.FiveMinuteHippo.com

medienhexer
KVRian
761 posts since 16 May, 2007 from At home. Good bye city ways!

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:56 am

Fourstepper wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:36 am
So why does no one here consider sonarworks to fix the frequency response?
Sonarworks can only fix the frequency response. So it can fix what a microphone measures while the speakers play music.

But everything in the psychoacoustic domain, meaning: what your ears and brain can actually decipher, is very much dependent on room acoustics. And those can not be improved by Sonarworks.

Please read up on early reflections, frequency masking, comb filter effects, scattering, reverberation time, etc. Those are room acoustic issues which prevent you from hearing what your speakers produce and in the end will prevent you from making good mixing decisions.
..off to play with my music toys - library music production.
http://www.FiveMinuteHippo.com

medienhexer
KVRian
761 posts since 16 May, 2007 from At home. Good bye city ways!

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:41 am

Touch The Universe wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:05 am
With Sub and Without Sub. No settings on the sub improved the flatness. It got flat when I turned it off completely :D Not sure what to think about this.

superimpose.png
That 50Hz peak is probably due to your ca. 52Hz room mode
..off to play with my music toys - library music production.
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:44 am

medienhexer wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:41 am
Touch The Universe wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:05 am
With Sub and Without Sub. No settings on the sub improved the flatness. It got flat when I turned it off completely :D Not sure what to think about this.

superimpose.png
That 50Hz peak is probably due to your ca. 52Hz room mode
I have my subs set to 52 HZ. I changed to 80hz but the bump was still there. Were you refering to something else? I don't understand :neutral:
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:50 am

After quite a bit of effort, I placed my speakers to face the length of the rectangle room, opposed to its side, which caused an interesting thing to happen -- it flattened out the bass a bit. There is still a lot to fix here, but atleast I'm not staring at mj fuji :D

I'm not sure what else to try to flatten things out without treatment. Adjusting the settings on the sub doesn't smoothen things out until they are off! Any other things I can try?

The image below might look worse, but that is because I'm using 1/48 smoothing and zoomed in much more. My other pics were zoomed out and using 1/3 smoothing, making it seem the room was flatter than it is.
Subs Length Adjust.jpg

Link to Roomeqwizard MDAT file https://ufile.io/e3evi (file is not archived/compressed, just the mdat file)
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3572 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Adam TV7 or Adam A7X or Nuemann KH 120

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:23 am

medienhexer wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:29 am
How did you produce 150 dB for the waterfall? And why?
Thanks for your analysis! :D I appreciate it a lot!

Turns out there was a calibration issue. I loaded the mic calibration file also in the sound card calibration file, which is bad. I fixed that :D Now it is better.

In fact, I nearly blew my speakers up, or risked injuring my ears, setting this whole test up. I didn't understand how to match volume levels. It said to match the volume to the spl meter of 75 but it wasn't calibrated properly, so even increasing the volume max on my interface and computer barely got it to 70. In reality, it was probably 150 or higher! I tried to run the test but it shorted/clipped out.

I got it sorted, so that's good. Need to be careful with this s*** if you are noob!!
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