why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
bermudagold
KVRist
295 posts since 15 Feb, 2005

Post Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:10 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:53 am
skipscada wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER ...
It is not that various modulations cannot be done at all in other DAWs (depending on the DAW)... it is how easy and intuitive it is in Bitwig.
In Tracktion Waveform you can drag-and-drop LFO onto any plugin. From your description Bitwig seems to take the idea further, but the feature has been there in Waveform for some time, and I can't imagine a faster and easier way to implement it than in Waveform. In fact I'd say it's too easy. In the end it's like "if in doubt, put an LFO on it".
LFO in Waveform is a clumsy limited afterthought, so much better in Bitwig
that's a lil hyperbolic....tracktion allows you to create a plugin rack per track that can have any number of instrument and effect plugins in serial or parallel using visual routing which it has had for over a decade, and you can easily assign native modulators to anything inside it now....the actions panel on the side which can be toggled visible on demand, allows you to zero in on what is going on in a complicated set up in essentially the same manner as bitwig inspector and many other DAWs similar concepts...there may be only 7 modulators as of right now but they are pretty flexible and contain the most useful IMO,... envelope follower and midi tracker
yeah, bitwig takes it further, but the basic idea of creating a complicated patch with lots of sounds and movement is there, intuitive, and fast....lets not forget yellowtools had this same functionality well over a decade ago too for use in any DAW, so this notion that bitwigs main supposed selling point is so new and novel,...and tracktion's a clumsy limited afterthought,....are both overstatements
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zzz00m
KVRAF
1711 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:35 pm

Interesting... but waaaay off topic!
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bermudagold
KVRist
295 posts since 15 Feb, 2005

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:38 pm

zzz00m wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:35 pm
Interesting... but waaaay off topic!
how?....the last four pages of the thread were literally about native modulation vs automation and bitwig's implementation....clip launching posts stopped a while ago :)
Music had a one night stand with sound design.....And the condom broke

xbitz
KVRAF
2326 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:42 pm

^^^ then about this :D , at least with Isotonik Signal AL also knows the basic modulation things from now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXYR_CTbwAU
far from Bitwig although, but except the modulation things AL is more feature rich at this moment (writing this before The Grid era of Bitwig) Bitwig is bit specialized one
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
2973 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:34 pm

As to original question:

Live has audio clip aunchers, as it was originally designed as a performance sampler. It only evolved into fully-fledged DAW later on.
Now, Bitwig was created by a team of ex-Ableton employees, who copied their ideas but also developed advanced modulation scheme that was long-requested in Live, but not possible with current engine at that time. So Bitwig is improved Ableton in this sense.
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zzz00m
KVRAF
1711 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:30 am

Clip launching was not originally a classic DAW concept. Early DAWs were built to emulate a multi-track recording studio using a linear recording model with the tape recorder transport, and sometimes an on screen mixing console so you could see the channels and tracks, effects and busses, etc.

Ableton Live pioneered the clip launching concept with their session view, and later Bitwig tried to one-up Ableton.

A few other DAWs have included some form of clip launchers, such as the former Cakewalk Project 5 from over a decade ago, with their Groove Matrix, which was later ported to Sonar as the "Matrix View". Acoustica Mixcraft has the "Performance Panel". MOTU Digital Performer DP10 has now added the "Clips window".

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ca ... oject-5-v2
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... trix-magic
https://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/
http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/
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replicant X
KVRist
185 posts since 30 Jun, 2009 from moon

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:30 am

Latest version of Playtime (clip launcher plugin for Reaper) is brilliant and stable.
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elassi
KVRAF
2143 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:54 am

zzz00m wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:30 am
Clip launching was not originally a classic DAW concept. Early DAWs were built to emulate a multi-track recording studio using a linear recording model with the tape recorder transport, and sometimes an on screen mixing console so you could see the channels and tracks, effects and busses, etc.

Ableton Live pioneered the clip launching concept with their session view, and later Bitwig tried to one-up Ableton.
Imho, classic sequencing has to be mentioned here, too. Today it goes hand in hand with audio handling (the "A" in DAW) but in former days there were MIDI-only-"DAW"s like Cubase or Notator (today: Logic) for Atari.

Notator used some sort of clip launching right from the beginning and I recall hefty debates among the users if it's the better concept compared to Cubase's linear approach (similar to the MAC vs. WIN religious war).

CoolColJ
KVRist
106 posts since 30 Apr, 2001 from Australia

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 am

Music X on the Amiga had clip launching, in the early 90s!

Via the "Play Sequences" function, that could be triggered via midi :)
You could also have Play Sequences within other Play Sequences, and basically treat midi sequences like sampled loops

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2006 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:33 am

The first I think was Opcode Vision and later StudioVision. But without that UI which first appeared in Live. There you could just play any sequence by hitting a key on your computer keyboard. They would not run together though, but hey that was 1989...

zzz00m
KVRAF
1711 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:06 am

CoolColJ wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 am
Music X on the Amiga had clip launching, in the early 90s!

Via the "Play Sequences" function, that could be triggered via midi :)
You could also have Play Sequences within other Play Sequences, and basically treat midi sequences like sampled loops
Cool, but sequencers are not DAWs. The "A" in DAW stands for "Audio".

So here we are talking about a DAW.

I have nothing against sequencers, in fact I still own an 8-track MIDI hardware sequencer from the early 90's. Bought it new at the local music shop back when I couldn't afford a computer. :D
Windows 10; with instruments from Ableton, AIR, Ample Sound, AAS, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, PreSonus, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

CoolColJ
KVRist
106 posts since 30 Apr, 2001 from Australia

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:21 am

zzz00m wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:06 am
CoolColJ wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 am
Music X on the Amiga had clip launching, in the early 90s!

Via the "Play Sequences" function, that could be triggered via midi :)
You could also have Play Sequences within other Play Sequences, and basically treat midi sequences like sampled loops
Cool, but sequencers are not DAWs. The "A" in DAW stands for "Audio".

So here we are talking about a DAW.

I have nothing against sequencers, in fact I still own an 8-track MIDI hardware sequencer from the early 90's. Bought it new at the local music shop back when I couldn't afford a computer. :D
Music-X did record audio, via the Amiga's 8 bit converters :)
Stored as samples

zzz00m
KVRAF
1711 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:49 am

CoolColJ wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:21 am

Music-X did record audio, via the Amiga's 8 bit converters :)
Stored as samples
Well like I said, never could afford a computer back in those days, LOL! I preferred the samples in my Roland JV-880 anyway, to any noises a computer could make at the time.

Missed out on the Amiga revolution. Maybe 8-bit will make a comeback!
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philipphoenix
KVRer
7 posts since 16 Jan, 2019

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:56 am

Made by same people.

machinesworking
KVRAF
1501 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?

Post Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:45 am

replicant X wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:30 am
Latest version of Playtime (clip launcher plugin for Reaper) is brilliant and stable.
Even better if you own Push is Möss's free software.
http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Reaper/Reaper.html

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