DUNE 3 is now available!!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Cinebient
KVRAF
4014 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Post Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:13 am

My take on a Dune 3 cinematic track...beware....weird...:)
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dune-3-the-power

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Julien Unison
KVRist
382 posts since 9 Oct, 2006

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:21 am

:love: :love: :love:
U N I S O N : shoegaze / electronic / black metal wall of sound with heavenly voice
https://soundcloud.com/weareunison / https://www.facebook.com/unison666 / https://weareunison.com/

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7717 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:03 pm

kevinmac wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:53 pm
Fantastic synth that sounds like hardware, and a total joy to program! Loving it here...
Really? So you love the tiny controls inside the screen and the enormous ones outside? You love diving into a multi-layer preset to work out which layer is doing what? Honestly? I love the sounds DUNE can make but I absolutely hate programming it.
Last edited by BONES on Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10), Yamaha AG06, Orion 64 bit, Roli Seaboard Rise 25, Ultranova, Rocket, Pulse 2, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12194 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:10 pm

And I absolutely love programming Dune 3. Round and round we go......... :wheee:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7717 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:28 pm

No, what you love is where you end up. You can't possibly make sounds in Hive, then go to DUNE and think the process is equally simple/straightforward. It just isn't. It is completely obvious that a lot of time, thought and effort went into making Hive's workflow pleasurable and none at all went into DUNE's interface/workflow. You use both, you can't possibly sit that and say that there isn't massive room for improvement in DUNE's UI, that it couldn't be ten times better than it is now.

I'll give you one really good example that came up just last night - you can't even see the name or number of the patch you are using if you are not on the "MAIN" tab of the central screen. I can't think of any other synth, except maybe the detestable Sylenth 1, that is so poorly designed.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10), Yamaha AG06, Orion 64 bit, Roli Seaboard Rise 25, Ultranova, Rocket, Pulse 2, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno.

Oberheim 8000
KVRist
196 posts since 1 Feb, 2014

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:59 am

I partially agree with BONES, programing in Dune 3 is not bad until you need use Mod Matrix.

Armagibbon
KVRian
695 posts since 20 Apr, 2017

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:00 am

Pro tip... you can check what patch you got loaded by playin the keys

AnX
KVRAF
3942 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:23 am

no probs programming it here, its a breeze.

EnGee
KVRAF
5180 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:51 am

I really hope the next version of Dune (4th maybe!) will have a better design and workflow. The sound is great in version 3 but the workflow is messy without taking a real advantage from more elegant and powerful design.

For example, I hope in a future version to have instead of those 'crazy' layers, 3 engines of generating sound or just three layers every one has specific oscillators or kind of synthesis. All have 4 oscillators instead of 3 (or 3 + sub). The first layer has a VA engine while the 2nd is wavetable oscillators and lastly the third is FM with 4 operators (with fixed or flexible algorithms).

Of course I agree with Bones that the preset's navigation should be accessible when editing the various parameters. The central window needs to have fewer tabs and the mod matrix needs to be in another place. Anyway, the demo has expired and I'm still not convinced of the upgrade, so I will pass!
Let's donate to help the kids and save our planet.

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2855 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:00 am

I dont find Matrix that troublesome, actually. Sure its not most intuitive, but i think its more because there is no Drag n Drop feature like most synths now has or some sort of mod to env lfo ect directly from the menu. Just imagine: remove drag and drop/ mod to env/lfo ect features from Serum, Hive, Synthmasters, Zebra 2 and you are left out basicly with same mod matrix.

Only thing i really dont like about Dune 3 is the browser and that it doesnt have even the most common feature like FAVORITE. Serum didnt had that at first but later on new browser appeared wich is a saver. Wish Synapse wouldnt be so stubborn and modernise the browser even at its simpliest.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12194 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:03 am

On a more positive note....This might help those who are having trouble getting their heads around Dune 3's workflow:

We can look at D3 like 8 identical hardware synths in a Rack. In that rack are also 2 FX Modules and 2 Arp/Seq Modules. Then there is also a Mod Matrix unit.

You can route any of the 8 synths through either FX unit or both and you can route them through one of the Arp/Seq modules or you can bypass any of them altogether.

When presented in INIT mode D3 is a simple VA synth with one Osc set to a Saw wave and it's run through a LPF. Very simple, straight forward, and standard.

Each synth or layer can be VA, FM or Wavetable and most combinations if you use all three Osc's in each layer.

You can program some very nice patches without ever using more than one layer but you can also build sounds by adding layers and that's where D3 shines.

So if you break it down to its elements D3 is dead simple to program. :wink:

Now could there be improvements in the way the Layers are accessed or the visual representation of the Mod Matrix ? I suppose it could be improved for those who struggle with such things but these are features of convenience not features of function. In other words making the Mod Matrix bigger will not make D3 sound any different.

Would Drag and Drop Mod assignments be nice to have ? Sure but they would only make things easier not improve the sound one bit and so it goes with any of the features of convenience. Would a Layer Mixer be nice ? Certainly but again it's not adding anything new only making things a little easier. I'm not opposed to such features but they have a pretty low priority on my wish list as I prefer features that expand the range of sounds.

Bottom line is D3 is an awesome sounding synth that might require you to spend a little time with it to become comfortable....like any instrument.

Is there room for improvement ? Of course as I said earlier but since we don't know if Synapse plans on developing Dune to version 4 or on past its current version of 3.07 we can either enjoy it for what it is now or we can spend our time bitching about what it isn't.

Seems like a pretty simple choice to me..... :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14976 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am

Oberheim 8000 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:59 am
I partially agree with BONES, programing in Dune 3 is not bad until you need use Mod Matrix.
Half the power of Dune is in the Mod Matrix

I also agree with BONES... although I think he exaggerates it some... but Dune is not very user friendly, and not just because it is a complex synth. Various functionality that might have a dedicated control in a different synth depends on the Mod Matrix in Dune. So the Mod Matrix being clunky and not fluid to use makes a proportionally bigger difference in Dune.

Also, because much sound design happens in the Mod Matrix, I find the synth somewhat opaque in terms of understanding what is going on in a sound.

I quite like the sound and capability of Dune so was looking forward to Dune 3 assuming the workflow would be improved. I didn't buy Dune 2 because of the workflow and so there is no reason to buy Dune 3 either. Maybe Dune 4 :)

Elektronisch
KVRAF
2855 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:49 am

Dune 3 resambles alot to a modern hardware synth with LCD. Take Virus Ti as example, or Novation Peak...

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wagtunes
KVRAF
14899 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 am

The problem with Dune 2, Dune 3, whatever, is that it's a science professor's synth. It's not an artist's synth. At least not in regard to programming it. If you have the kind of analytical mind that can do formulas and equations and program computers, Dune is a cakewalk to program if not a bit boring. But if you're an artist who is used to turning knobs and adjusting sliders, Dune is like trying to master calculus 3.

My main job before retiring was programming computers, so Dune is easy for me. But I can see why people hate the interface, especially the mod matrix.

Ironically, I have an easier time getting a variety of sounds out of Dune than I do out of The Legend because comparatively speaking, The Legend is limited. I mean nobody can say, with a straight face, that The Legend is as powerful in the programming area as Dune. If you're claiming that then you're just doing it to be argumentative.

I find The Legend boring as hell to program. I did that shit 40 years ago and I've had enough of it. It gets old real fast. In fact, VA synthesis is so boring for me that I will absolutely never buy another "pure" VA synth ever again. I mean, what's the point?

Point is, please don't be surprised by people not liking Dune 2 and 3.

I'm more surprised at the number of people who aren't tired of the Minimoog yet.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12194 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: DUNE 3 is now available!!

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:45 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am
Half the power of Dune is in the Mod Matrix
Not half but some.
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am
Various functionality that might have a dedicated control in a different synth depends on the Mod Matrix in Dune.
And where would that "dedicated control" reside ? That's right on the GUI therefore making it larger or more crowded. Then people would complain it's too big or too crowded.
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am
So the Mod Matrix being clunky and not fluid to use makes a proportionally bigger difference in Dune.
Not the least bit clunky and perfectly fluid to use here. Would drag and drop be nice ? Yes but not necessary.
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am
Also, because much sound design happens in the Mod Matrix I find the synth somewhat opaque in terms of understanding what is going on in a sound.
What is opaque about a 32 Slot Mod Matrix on a single Tab, 7 of which can be seen at one time, the rest accessed by a simple scroll ? Everything is laid out right in front of you. No different in time required than Hive's 2 Tab MM system for example.
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am
I quite like the sound and capability of Dune so was looking forward to Dune 3 assuming the workflow would be improved. I didn't buy Dune 2 because of the workflow and so there is no reason to buy Dune 3 either. Maybe Dune 4 :)
My point is we don't know if there will be a Dune 4. Synapse may start work on a new project or they may keep developing Dune. I haven't seen a definitive answer to that yet. I'd love to see either one. But if development of Dune continues I'd rather see valuable time be spent on the sound rather than features of comfort.

So if you really like Dune's sound now then you'll just have to learn how to use it. No synth will program itself unless it has a randomize function.

Some people complain about what a synth doesn't have. Other people have learned to enjoy what it does have. We have seen several patch banks released for D2 and now D3 with more on the way so obviously not everyone has a problem programming it....... :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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