KVR Audio

2:43AM · Post by **2:43AM** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:35 pm

Need some help with this one. Thanks in advance. Here's the issue:

When USB devices, specifically Control Surfaces such as the A500 and Push, experience problems and/or disconnections, or reconnections to a different USB port, then the next time Ableton Live starts up, it seems to create a new instance of the connected device, i.e. Control Surface. The result is an ever-expanding list of Control Surfaces, with several instances of inactive Control Surfaces. Unfortunately, this problem goes beyond just clutter inside of the Preferences menu, and it affects more than just people with OCD! Rather, it changes the actual input name from the Control Surface, thereby messing up any saved MIDI-track templates. Here’s an example:

A MIDI track is saved as a template. The input to this MIDI track was set to “Roland A PRO Input (1 – A-PRO 2).” The A500 (keyboard) is plugged into USB port ‘1’. For new MIDI tracks, the template is called up each time, and the A500 is selected as the input. Overall, Ableton Live is used for a period of time, and all is working well. Then, Ableton Live is closed.

A problem exists on USB port 1, or other USB devices are added, and the A500 is moved from USB Port 1 to USB Port 2.

Ableton Live is opened again, and this time the Control Surfaces in Preferences changes/updates. The old instance of “Roland A PRO Input (1 – A-PRO 2)” remains, but is grayed out. However, a new instance of the A500 exists, this time called “Roland A PRO Input (2 – A-PRO 2).”

A new MIDI track is created in a project, and the template is once again called up. However, this time the input device in the drop-down menu is outdated, inactive, and no longer functional. In order for the proper input device to be used, “Roland A PRO Input (2 – A-PRO 2)” must be selected.

How the hell do I keep Live from doing this? I want the Control Surface to NOT be "1" or "5" or "7" which is where I'm at now. Somehow, Live thinks that I have connected 7 different A500 keyboards to Live over the past couple of months!

I've tried deleting the Preferences.cfg, Undo folder, and Template.als file to no avail, ensuring I get all versions of Live (i.e. all the junk folders left over from previous installations/updates).

2:43AM · Post by **2:43AM** » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:27 am

Bump. Anyone experiencing this? Due to constant unplugging/plugging-in of devices and/or resetting USB devices in general, I am now on the 8th version of the A-PRO controller surface! It's on #8 and I cannot reset it! The "Reset Live" procedure where Preferences.cfg, the Undo folder, and the Template.als files DOES NOT WORK to reset this problem. Could this be considered a bug? Need some confirmation from anyone before firing this one off to Ableton.

Deep Purple · Post by **Deep Purple** » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:49 am

I can't say I've ever experienced this, so it's not necessarily a known bug or anything like that

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:22 am

Windows or Mac? Have you checked with any other DAW to ensure its not actually your operating system that's creating the new MIDI devices?

BrokenTrance · Post by **BrokenTrance** » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:54 pm

Have had the same problem as OP in Ableton Live. It creates new device with number attatched to it(2, 3 etc), and old one becomes pink in colour. I think though maximum of 2-3 devices it has created. Maybe because Automap?

2:43AM · Post by **2:43AM** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:25 pm

Windows machine. I submitted a bug/tech support ticket to Ableton. Apparently, it may be a known issue and they may be working on it, per Centercode (program beta-verison team). I'm not holding my breath, however, since it's been a bug back in the 9.7.5 days (and possibly earlier).

It may be related to how Windows handles input devices. I noticed that my version of Cakewalk Sonar has the device listed as '8' as well, though I don't recall it ever being as problematic.

The work around, I suppose, is to never save a template track with a specific input device. Instead, just use "All Ins." This defeats the purpose, however, and it's especially annoying when all your devices go bonkers because the track is receiving (and resending) MIDI from a piece of hardware that's outputting sequencer MIDI out data!

2:43AM · Post by **2:43AM** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:27 pm

Since it may be caused by Windows, anyone know where a log/config file may be located in the OS that can be deleted, or edited, to bring it back down to '0' or '1'?

2:43AM · Post by **2:43AM** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:36 pm

Lol, now I'm on instance #9 for my A-PRO controller!

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:24 pm

Might help you manage instances :

https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:50 pm

It is related to windows, I have this happened in the past so now I never disconnect stuff or I connect them to exactly the same port.

Nevertheless I think I came a cross a way to delete the extra devices from windows registry, but don't remember where it was.

Windows big updates also reset the names xD

2:43AM · Post by **2:43AM** » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:46 am

rod_zero wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:50 pm Windows big updates also reset the names xD

Yes, they do...and a whole lot more!

I think I found a way, but I need to redo my "procedure" to confirm it.

What I ended up doing is within the Device Manager, go to the View menu and check the Show Hidden Devices option. In my case, there were eight instances of grayed-out A-PRO USB devices and one "active" device. I deleted/uninstalled these inactive devices and restarted. Didn't help. But then I uninstalled the active device, but did not delete the driver. Restarted computer. Upon booting Live, the device count for the A-PRO controller was back to the original, "zero" instance!

During my investigation online, I came across a .bat script that supposedly cleans up old devices. It requires devcon.exe (developer's code/app for devices), which I did find, download, and install. Running the script didn't do much but list a bunch of failures, but it may have cleaned it up rather than uninstalling the device mentioned previously. In my haste, I did both techniques before restarting the computer.

I tried looking in the registry, but I only found "friendly names," which didn't bear the numerical count, i.e. 6- A-PRO, 7- A-PRO, 8- A-PRO, etc. Friendly names, I believe, dictate what the device could be called within Live, but Ableton has not yet implemented this feature. It was one thing I loved about Cakewalk Sonar; I could name all of my MIDI I/O to make sense and "point me to" all of my hardware. Come on Ableton!!!

Jim Roseberry · Post by **Jim Roseberry** » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 pm

Korg's USB driver installer also has an "Uninstall" utility.
This Uninstall utility works for Korg and 3rd-party USB MIDI drivers.
You can use this to remove unwanted USB MIDI devices.

Annoyed with Live's Preferences and Control Surfaces Auto-Naming!