The relationship between rhythm and melody, and figuring out the rhythm of a melody

[jancivil]

20 thousand MIDI files downloaded off the internet? Really? I must have dreamed that then. It went on for days, thousands of people saw it.

Call me a liar, dipshit. I need other people's random drum pattern generators. Those were other people's MIDIs to begin with. This other strategy of avoidance of doing it yourself is a better look because "random generators" sounds intellectumal?

Yeah, no, the look remains you don't know how to make the thing yourself and that you have no authentic thoughts.
Stick to speed scrabble, seriously, I mean that.


Anyway.
I remember this video from a while before the guy transcribed the drums.

[harryupbabble]

Yes, you dreamed it up. I have never downloaded those 20,000 drum files. A drum sequencer generated it for me. it took the drum sequencer about 4 days (not including nights) if my memory is correct.

You think there's only one way of making music?

[jancivil]

Now you're just lying. - apologies, my mistake.

You're not avant-garde. You have some fantasy of becoming a songwriter and you got a whole bunch of files which were supposed to have been Ringo Starr parts and the like and you decided you could get around the whole thing of knowing what happens, like an honest person, with some cockamamie notion of manipulating them by randomizing or whatever.

Nonetheless I'm standing with this:
You're a serial bullshitter, and it looks like you're deluding yourself with a lot of absolute bullshit.

Quit wasting our time, seriously.

[harryupbabble]

I am off to shovel the snow. Wowie, everyday for two weeks now. I still like snow though.

[jancivil]

The thread is still there - actually more than one - I'm reasonably sure.

Ok, you did say this: At the moment I've no interest in making my own drum patterns since I find that drum midi generators are giving me results that I am pleased with.
So factually I did interpret you bringing in 'To make it sound like Ringo Starr or something" into "other people's MIDIs" which came up later.
But you don't even have the interest to do that apparently. My bad.

[jancivil]

You think there's only one way of making music?

You think you know how to make music?

No, I know of numerous different strategies but my use of any such has a basis in understanding music, for instance rhythm.
I don't believe rolling dice or random generators is where a basic rock drum part is located, nor that it would help save time as you stated in the 20, 000 patterns thread, but if you're just wasting your own time with it, who cares. Here you have nothing to offer whatsoever and my sense of humor and patience with you ran out. Because I have seen what you do: bullshit.

[elassi]

flibbertigibbet

Thank you for this word. Love it. Didn't know it exists, but went straight to my heart upon reading it.

[IncarnateX]

So the way this is often illustrated is from America, a number from West Side Story.

in 6/8, beat one underlined:
I want to be in A mer, i, ca. 1 2 3, 1 2 3 1 2, 1 2, 1 2. Also out of Afro-Cuban norms.

Oh yes. Such a nice example, love the tune. Though, I had this crazy Afro American percussion teacher who would claim that all Latin claves with a subdivison of 16 were western revisions of African 12. In compound meters, he would avoid using 4 as far as possible (e.g. no 9/4 but 12/8 is ok) In polyrhythms, e.g. 3 against 4, he would insist that 3 should be the base feeling and not 4. He even rewrote a tune from Real Book from being notated as 4/4 with triplets into 12/8. We could not read it, but then again it was our own fault being the 4/4 brainwashed westerners we were. Beyond that, he claimed that the white race had stolen the black race’s music (as well as science and mathematics) and twisted it beyond recognition because we have no friggin rhythm at all and obviously cannot count to more than 4. And besides: 12 is the number of the universe and Jesus was black, so we did not even get that one right. Well, he was a nuthouse but I owe him big time for patiently teaching my degenerated white ass into a little understanding of advanced rhythms.

[jancivil]

That reminds me of a STUPID argument I let myself be dragged into here where the guy asserted that 12 *is* compound time like it's nothing else.
It *is* a 4-beat time sig and that's the end of it. While there is very definitely African 12 which is no such thing. Yeah, so it's not written, but if you do want to write that or put it in your sequencer it's twelve beats. I pointed out the idea, 7 + 5 = 12 but to justify his assertion as The Truth that has to simply be alternating measures of 7 and 5. The practice notwithstanding, where the cycle is 12 and it is never not 12. And America has to be 6/8 and 3/4 alternating, because 6/8 can never be 3 beats. He even went so far as to say he's seen it written as such.

People be crazy.

Anyway I tried to find something about metal drumming but the thing I did find at YT 'Metal Fundamentals' went on for several minutes and all he had was up and down, either it was kick on all the downbeats or snare on all the downbeats - the thing was to play them super-fast - and I was just bored to tears.

[jancivil]

Oh, and there very definitely are 16 beat cycles in Western African drumming. I suppose that's western corruption as well.

[IncarnateX]

He even went so far as to say he's seen it written as such.

My teacher only claimed that the original clave is in 12, not that America is written as such but it is same idea.

And yes: 16 in African rhythms are deffo polluted as well, there is simply no such thing

[jancivil]

Yeah, he said he'd seen it on a music stand, there was some arrangement that did that. I said 'What moron needs that' and he decided I was calling him a moron. But he was working on his doctorate and I'm just a street kid, you know.

He kept acting like I didn't understand compound time because I didn't agree with those points.

[BertKoor]

Quit wasting our time and screen space please.

I find this a disturbingly rude thing to say.
It's not like you own this place, although your behaviour (here and in other threads) indicates you think you do.

Authority does not come from pissing on whoever you think is below you. The muggles / nomajs deserve to be treated with some respect.

[jancivil]

Authority? You worry about your own bullshit. I don't give a rat's ass what you think about it; seeing what you just did, you're quite the hypocrite and that shit itself shows a huge failure of self-awareness.

I'm not the first person to say that to someone on the forum. If you care to look back, not that you seem a particularly reflective or thoughtful person really, he came in to say just paste something in you like and use a groove template rather than have a single thought or idea about how it actually works.

I OTOH have contributed and done some work for the benefit of others in thread. And for years.
Do you have anything, or do you just feel like you're somebody's boss now.
I lost patience with an individual, read why and have a f**king thought. I find what you did alarming, given the circumstances. Off-topic and flaming, you can do it, no worries? I think "stop wasting our time" was rather on-point.

[jancivil]

If the random-generated drum pattern sounds like other people's midi, it would be coincidence.

Besides, I reject 95 percent of what the generators spit out. Lots of auditioning experience that way. I'm worried of going deaf.

This is a waste of time. Your choice to waste your own time like that is not really my business. If I thought you could be helped I should try to persuade you. However I have found over time that people who have devised strategies to avoid awareness and deceive themselves are not persuadable through reasoning.

I think the better path was to say nothing, because I am complicit in this waste of time and our space, inspiring you only to defend yourself; but this presents a dilemma, because at the same time I feel something so wrong should be addressed.

It was not a good day for me and I was strongly reactive, but what you do here is bullshit. It isn't that you're a "muggle" or "below" me (I gave some real thought about what to say to the OP who is a total beginner, note well: "pissing on whoever you think is below you" rather hasty and thoughtless, isn't it) or whatever, it's that you're not honest in dealing with it, you devise layer upon layer of bullshit to get around what's too hard for you, musical work. In fact you're no noob here, what I'm talking about is evidenced time and time again. And I'm not the only person that notices it.

I apologize to the group for my complicity in, and this further waste of time.