Does Melody Even Matter??

[Bombadil]

[vurt]

[vurt]

obviously, if i was as nefarious as my fellow masons, you would already be missing.
or turned in to a frog.
depending which stories about the masons you choose to believe.

[IncarnateX]

it is.

So it IS a secret then? Dark og light? Objective or subjective? Analog or digital? If you are the one you claim you are, you would know and since you are in a KVR thread, you are obligued to share.

[vurt]

everything is a secret till you are ready to receive.

[vurt]

also, im not here.
you're imagining me.

[Bombadil]

Ribbit...ribbet....rbbet....

[vurt]

[vurt]

let me fix that, i was actually trying to make a coffee...

[IncarnateX]

I will probably never be ready to recieve anything, secret or not. I am thick as a brick, and my head is good for hammering only, but best of luck.

[IncarnateX]

Love it. FWIW. Bernstein also has one highly convincing performance of Mozart’s requiem on YouTube, from which
I post examples now and then.

[jancivil]

managed yet another double post

[jancivil]

Well, if your goal is to have a large audience and please a ton of people, you have to mirror their values. Appeal to commonality, dumbing down musical materials. That's what Max Martin discovered basically or Pharrell Williams... Nice vocal tune with refrains and choruses, lots of backing vocals as well, harmonies almost non-existent (3-4 major/minor chords), and then sparse elements on the spectrum (kick, snare, bass dead center, some claps or snaps in the LR, some instruments riffs and chords LR) and that's it. More music than this and you're doomed. The rest is effects and prodution. Very clean in your face compreessed production that sounds BIG.

i see.

Mirror their values.

I want to vomit. This is a description of a world in decline, and it's in decline because people are stupid and lack agency, and are easily manipulated by the people in power who are the only ones to benefit from this kind of economy.

This needs balancing with some reality-oriented discussion of the problem. Funnily enough I was looking at this yesterday. You can skip ahead simply clicking on the URL, cued to the pertinent section of this video.

[jancivil]

When I "see pop music as infantile" it's simply because it is. I wouldn't feel any need to defend having said it. You may enjoy having a problem with that inspiring you to write this overtly verbose crap, but that has no moment to reality.


(Of course not all of it, historically, is, some of it may have musical values working for it. Whether or not there are people struggling and feeling forced to adapt to a situation because of their economic situation, pandering is what it is. "mirror their values", give me a break.)

[jancivil]

Talking about a great dumbing-down in terms of differing values. Bringing in Lomax talking about music from American slavery of the African looks rather racist to me. I suppose a Miles Davis is impossible if that's a good premise.


You know what, the notion of your writing supposed to be critical is a consequence of the great dumbing-down.

I was reading this and wondering if even when one considers this perspective shaped by these core values, then what the "peak" would be. In terms of song, Some scholars and musicians praise the line of Stevie Wonder/Quincy Jones, Zappa, Prog Rock, Take 6, Jacob Collier, Snarky Puppy, Mary kimura, etc.... That means: musical practices requiring virtuosity of a physical instrument, mostly real time playing and interaction and ability to create a consistent story often on the spot (intrincate melodic lines and complex harmonizations), that are never equal and for the most aren't fixed: each performance should be different. Invention and innovation are praised. This contrasts with the idea of a "writen down" notation to be later "performed" and imitated the same, and instead relies on the notion of "improvisation" that can be "fixed" only through recording, which then others might transcribe and imitate, but those "imitators" are not valued.

Absolutely unnecessary dichotomy. When you find someone, Frank Zappa is the perfect example, recycling a live guitar solo, where the goal is to never repeat it (because of the nature of live music) then recycling it having Steve Vai transcribe it and doubling it with other instruments off the page, the necessity of talking about this vanishes. Your need to led you into falsity.

All other music practices are then considered "inferior" because of the "simplicity" of the musical materials and the lack of innovation or dexterity. Most pop music is seen as infantile because any 10 year old can play those, and imitate those.

Of course, everyone who starts from other kinds of values (for instance, most people who were not grown as "trained musicians" or don't play instruments) don't share them.

First, straw man argument. If there is someone who thinks that simplicity is through itself a negative, that's... immature.
I don't know who you're talking about who is supposed to think like this, so I think you must need a straw man to base this shit on.

(This is talking about not understanding as a f**king value!
You've got a lot of gall.)

So you launch into this crap:

Of course, everyone who starts from other kinds of values (for instance, most people who were not grown as "trained musicians" or don't play instruments) don't share them. Most of the time non-musicians just talk about lyrical content and the way vocals are delivered and the image of the singer.

Why would we care? Yeah, most people lack interest and have no idea. Not sure why this is supposed to be equalized.
Stop it, this is silly.

Historically, according to Lomax,

[snip: blah blah blah ...]



In a nutshell, there a lot of different musical cultures and musical practices in the world, derived from different values and upbringing, prior exposition to musical materials, etc...

You're so full of shit it's astonishing to witness.

BTW, prior *exposure* to... 'exposition' is a whole different word.